Anyone have a different view of alcoholism?

[A Quiet Boom]

Sebring,

Can't agree more with that statement. I never found any use for the 12 steppers even though I live in the town where AA was founded. I always found their meeting either boring or even detrimental. Many of them view alcohol as the problem and everything else as a symptom. In fact most of them still have there real problem they've just gotten rid of the symptom of alcohol abuse. I mistakenly coached my alcohol abusing sister inlaw into getting help and she choose AA. The people there told her she wasn't schizophrenic and within a month of stopping her medication and dropping her doctor she wound up commited again for the third time in her life. The last meeting I attended was 10 years ago in which I got into an argument with a member about my PD, he tried to tell me I didn't need medication or a doctor, the program would cure my problem. I fall on the side that believes that ALL addictions are a symptom of some type of mental condition be it low self esteem, desire to fit in, depression or in my case PD. I've stayed away from alcohol because it's a know fact that abuse can make PD worse even if it's a temporary fix (a few hours) took me years to quit caffience which is really bad and I've never really tried to quit smoking although I do limit my cigarettes daily (sux when I smoke too much at work and can't have one after sex LOL ) I have seen many people go down the road of excess drinking, many quit entirely and some cut back to an acceptable level, alcohol is a problem when it interferes with rather than enhances your life. In a way it's kind of like fast driving, acceptable on a track, iffy on an open road and flat wrong in a residential neighborhood. I built a drag car for this reason and I am now working on a track car. I have a stong desire for speed, first it was big-wheels, then bicycles, then go-carts and minibikes, then dirt bikes. I even raced bicycles for awhile. After I got my liscense I drove too fast and racked up the tickets until one day I found the solution in drag racing. At the dragstrip I could blast down the 1/4 and get the "need for speed" out of my system. I sold the dragcar when my daughter was one and in the last 5 years I've had to watch myself lest I get to heavy on the gas. This past summer I went to Mid-Ohio with a few Pelicanites and the urge was firmly back, I got a ride around the track in a fully prepped M3. When I got home my wife's first works where "you're building another car aren't you?" Does she know me or what? OK fast driving is totally acceptable within the moderation of a few track days a year, I'm a speed junky but I can deal with that, in fact just one ticket in 8 years and that was on the rare occasion that my wife told me to "hit it" little did I know there was a cop a few cars back. My wife, brother, sister and best friend all support whatever decision I make, they want me to be happy. I make that decision this Thurs. after consulting my doctor. I think I'm ready, I know I have the willpower and I know I'm too driven to let anything stand in the way of my life goals ever again now I just need a plan and I think KB got it right, I need a contract with those who know me and will tell it to me straight. If enjoying a nice drink is this important to me I just need a self-imposed limit that I cannot break or I don't drink again, if I break that limit well I guess it wasn't important enough to take seriously. Face it we own cars capable of 3 times the legal speed limit on most roads, consequences are the only thing holding us back from "exercising" these vehicles. Drinking is very much like speeding the reward is small compared to the consequences of pushing it to far.

[A Quiet Boom]

Well I thought you guys deserved an update. Here is the deal, and I recommend this to no one without full support of friends, family and co-workers. I made the deal or contract with my wife and sister who know me best and can both read me like a book. I can have one drink per night for five nights a week. I usually only have wine or port and the wife holds the keys to the cabinet. She also gets to make the purchase although I get to pick it out. I am not allowed to drink quickly, I must realx and enjoy it. Thus far I've limited myself to about 2 ounces of port after work (pricey stuff if you want to enjoy it) a few nights a week. On thursdays my best friend who was there during my problem brings a bottle from his collection and we (I) cook a fancy meal, I have a full glass (5 ounces) on these occassions. We spend two hours or so enjoying the dinner and the wine while I brew some high quality coffee (my other passion). Over coffee we have a nice desert and just relax. The good points here are that restricting myself to such a small amount means I must savor each sip, I find this very relaxing. I'm keeping a complete journal of what and when I drink for my doctor. The good meal is only made better with good wine. The bad point is that my tastes are too expensive. In total I'm having about 2-4 drinks per week and really enjoying it. I wish I could have had the common sense not to over indulge years ago. As a matter of fact I've looked at other areas of my life where I over indulge like smoking, coffee and computer time. I've been pulling back from it all and trying the moderation thing everywhere but work. I've realized that I'm really an over indulgence type of person and my years of sobriety only lead me to over indulge in other things.

I REALLY want to stress to others that have overcome addictions, do not try this at home. Get good advice, think about what you're doing and be totally honest with those around you. When in doubt don't even think about it. I had no doubt going into this thread and in many ways my mind was already made up, the many replies caused me to pause and continue forward with the utmost caution. Please do not use my experience as an excuse to restart an old bad habit, instead look at it as a way to judge yourself. Adddiction comes in many forms, look at your life, is your hobby taking over, do you drink too much or do drugs, are you obsessed with you body and workout or diet without regard to the consequences? Last night my CNC mill broke and I was positively despondent over it, I choose not to drink and went to bed early, things fell into place today. Never use anything as a crutch in your life and never let recreation lead you. I plan to keep this thread going because believe it or not you guys (and gals) are brutally honest and I respect you for that.

[Moses]

Good luck, Christian. It's a dangerous path you've chosen. Be careful.

[azasadny]

Christian,
Be careful, I'll be praying for you!!

[Evans, Marv]

Christian:
Best of luck. I agree that I too had the impression you had your mind made up. As you may recall, I said it seemed to me you were trying to find an excuse. You are right that it's not healthy to over do anything in life. Being older than most here, one of the things I have come to really realize is the wisdom of the the old saying (Chinese ?), "Everything in moderation."

[white87911]

Christian,
I tried exactly what you are doing, hope it works for you, did'nt work for me and still does not. (see previos post of mine)
Erik

[gary-o]

I truely wish you well. We (I suppose it's human nature) are always pushing the envelope to see where the border is. You appear to have put your life in order, have a job, wife and child. Why not just stay away from the sauce, you now have so much more to lose than you ever had.
I have read every post above and I really think that you are a strong person, however, it's too late once you've crossed over. Stating that you've quit before (meaning you can quit again if it's a problem) really doesn't cut it because your loved ones will no longer have the faith in you that they now do.
Your choice.
All the best.
Gary

[SLO-BOB]

Try not to think about it too much. If it preoccupies you, it's an addiction. It will be hard to not think about it as it's a huge change in your life. Hopefully, as time goes by, having a drink every so often will only bring joy with no uneasy feeling.

Keep buying the expensive stuff. It insures low consumption. I like scotch and wine. My wife likes port. We have bottles that are 3+ years old that are still half full. I just bought some Laga

Best of luck to you.

[speeder]

I personally can't imagine having one drink every night w/ my wife holding the keys to the liquor cabinet and the whole world of my friends watching. That would be one thousand times worse than being in AA for me. You're enjoying this? You don't want to go down to a honky-tonk w/ your buddies and listen to some rockabilly and look at some ass while pounding back beers and shots? And telling jokes and laughing your ass off, until the part where you don't exactly remember what happened? That's how it always starts for me.

Maybe you're not a real alky after all. I'd just rather get castrated than what you are doing. But I wish you luck at the same time because I care what happens to you.

[targa911S]

first step, no step, door step.......i'll save you a seat my friend. good luck.

[LeeH]

When I was about the age that a boy might start experimenting with alcohol, my older brother caused a car accident that killed a woman. I can't imagine what the victim's family went through as a result of that accident. I do, however, know what my family went through. It was devastating in so many ways.

So, I chose at an early age to not drink alcohol. Is there a chance that I might have the same addictive personality as my brother? Maybe... maybe not. While it may seem like an irrational fear to some, it just wasn't a risk I was willing to take.

[72 four door]

Wow controlled drinking huh guess the pain wasnt so great after all back when huh!! First off hope you make it back This drug is so freaking cunning and baffling its scary. Ill be keeping an eye on this 1 just remember You Cant do it AONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And please dont let your pride keep you out there. Life is good without the booze it allows you to reason. Also dont let some people in AA turn you off Theres alot of sick pups in there but theres alot of incredibly wise folk too. Take what you need and leave the rest . If you ever need to talk e mail me

[SLO-BOB]

Originally posted by Paul Andersen
Wow controlled drinking huh guess the pain wasnt so great after all back when huh!!

Also dont let some people in AA turn you off Theres alot of sick pups in there but theres alot of incredibly wise folk too.

Which of the above use sarcasm to respond to a person's solution to a dilemma-sick pups or wise folk?

Again-The AA mentality defaults to alcohol being the root cause for all the evils in a person's life. I'm just going to say it-It's not the alcohol that is the problem-it's the individual. There are so many examples of problems that occur while a person has alcohol in their blood, but alcohol wasn't the culprit. There are also many examples of bad things that happen while the individual is intoxicated, but that doesn't make that person an alcoholic.

Believe me-I know there are alcoholics-I've got a bunch in my family. They should NOT drink. I just get tired of hearing from alcoholics that another person is an alcoholic just because they have problems in their lives and also happen to drink.

[targa911S]

All I can say is that not every time I drank I got in trouble...but every time I got in trouble I had been drinking.

[SLO-BOB]

Originally posted by targa911S
All I can say is that not every time I drank I got in trouble...but every time I got in trouble I had been drinking.

That's a very insightful comment. I wish I could say the same.
I have no doubt you have done the right thing by quitting alcohol. And I really want say that I mean no offense to anyone involved here. I applaud the strength and courage it takes to stay sober. One who has no addictions can have no idea what you go through. Now if I could just get you to quit smoking....nevermind.

Just know that, unfortunately for me, my comments are based on a lifetime of abuse from unreformed alcoholics. My Mom is in the hospital as we speak because she has seizures. Oddly enough they seem to occur on Mondays after bingeing. Will she put 2 and 2 together? Hell no. Denial is dangerous thing. So I have a lot of experience with alcohol abuse. To add insult to injury, in past times if I would have a drink, or get a buzz on in my college days, the alcoholics I knew would tell me that I'm an alcoholic and I need to straighten out! I can look back on those days and honestly say I drank more than I should, but I was a typical student. After college I went about my life and found alcohol more of an inconvenience than recreational tool-I was too b usy to drink. I now drink on occasion and never to excess. Too many responsibilities and examples to set.

[A Quiet Boom]

Guys,

I really appreciate all the comments, criticisms and wishes for luck. The simple fact is I don't know if I'm an alcoholic but I do know I once abused it to try and fix my nerves. After finally dragging myself to a doctor I got the panic disorder under control and choose not to drink, no one ever directly said I couldn't, but it was sometimes implied. I was younger and dumber then and in fact probably never would have abused alcohol had I just seen a doctor in the first place. The other thing I know is I don't have the desire to drink more than one every now and then, it's just not there. There are times when it's nice to have a drink though and that's what I'm doing. When I made my decision to try again I decided to do it in the full knowledge of those important to me. The wife having the keys to the cabinet was sort of tongue in cheek, the truth is I only will drink when she is around so she knows what's going on. Time will tell, I've got a lot of close people supporting me in this and if I can't keep it under control then I'll quit for good.

[targa911S]

Sebring you didn't forget that smoking thread huh? It really is not about courage and strenght. It's about common sense. It's like I'm allergic to alcohol. 1 drink and I break out in *********. Once I got sober it was pretty easy to stay that way once I realized my life was so much better without it. Hell I would be dead by now for sure. If not by my own hand by someone elses for sure. Life is good now and has been for the 20 years I have been sober. I'm not judgemental at all about it. Live and let live I just know what's best for me. I have no problem with people drinking around me or anywhere for that matter. Not like those smoke nazis.

[white87911]

GOOD LUCK DUDE

[SLO-BOB]

Originally posted by targa911S
Not like those smoke nazis.

I have NO idea who you are talking about.

I'm not so much a Nazi as an avoider. I never ask someone to put out their smoke. I simply walk away.

Sounds like (other than the smoking thing) you're a really strong person. Nearly all the alcoholics I know/knew were/are tormented daily when they were/are dry. It was a constant battle. Sadly, some lost that battle. Maybe I mentioned before, but my former fiancee died alone and on her bathroom floor from multiple organ failure. I left her 6-8 years prior to that after 10 years of hell. She had the world by the a*s but just couldn't beat it.

[targa911S]

Your right you weren't the person that started the smoking thread. Man that is so sad about your friend. My drummer lost a former G friend the same way. He did everything he could..Baker acted and all. She just flat out killed herself with booze. Same deal, multiple organ failure.