Anyone have a different view of alcoholism?

[A Quiet Boom]

First some background. I quit drinking 11 years ago at the age of 23, I was self medicating severe panic disorder and as a result I drank a lot. I sought the advice of an outstanding doctor and we went about a course of treatment to include medication, cognitive behavioral therapy and sobering up. For the last 11 years I have always believed I was an alcoholic and thus never drank, checked the labels on everything, even quit eating raw cookie dough (vanilla extract is high in alcohol) . Anyway a funny thing happened to me a month ago, I went to church for the first time in a while with my family for Christmas and without thinking I had some communion wine, it was only a sip as is the custom but it got me thinking. I have a degree in Culinary Arts, I worked from the age of 17 to 28 in restaurants and during those years I developed very fine tastes. During my "drunk" years I enjoyed the finest wines, single malt scotch, extra dry martini's, fine cordials, you name it. These last 11 years I have helped several people with both addictions as well as mental disorders and I've scoffed at people who are obviously drunk, all the while I've been mad at myself for screwing up and depriving myself of the simple pleasure of a nice drink from time to time. I never stopped enjoying life though, I still went to bars and parties, had friends who drink, been the designated driver etc. I've never missed getting drunk but I've often missed a cool Cabernet, a neat single malt, warmed B&B etc. Now after all this time I ask myself, am I really an alcoholic? Does problem drinking in my past require that I never drink again? Can I never enjoy a vintage Bordeaux with my filet? When I asked my doctor these questions his answers where simple, yes in moderation you can drink. This shocked me so I pressed him for answers (he is board certified in chemical dependency as well as 4 other certifications in Psychiatry). He reminded me of several behaviors that I exhibit including the fact that I still frequented bars during the first four years of my sobriety, my medication is addictive and I've never abused it, I'm strong willed. He suggested that I ponder my reasons to drink and well as reasons not to and he reminded me that I had quit before. He also added that I've done very well with my panic disorder to the point that I actually take very little medication compared to other patients. Most important to him though was my drive to succeed, he felt that I would never allow an addiction to run my life again.

So my question is this, do I follow conventional wisdom and never enjoy drinking in moderation or do I attempt drinking on a trial basis and see where it takes me? In other words if I play with fire will I get burned or can I refine that fire and make beautiful welds

I'd like honest answers since this is important to me, I don't want to spend the rest of my life dry if I don't have to but I will if I must. Also try not to preach, I know all about the evils of over indulgence, I'm talking about mild social drinking here.

[bryanthompson]

I'm only 20, so I'm not of any legal age to drink, and I've never drank more than a sip of beer ever. For me, I have no interest in alcohol, only becuase I can't see any benefits to it (aside from being able to piss your way out of an avelanche... but that's a worst case scenereo). The friends that I have drink some, but not uncontrollably, and they never even ask if I want one. It just isn't an issue. We can sit around a fire and I can drink a pepsi while they drink whatever they want and everyone's happy. They don't think less of me for it, and I don't think any less of them. They know that I will always be a designated driver, or I'll come pick them up if they're within 75 miles of where I happen to be and they need a ride. It's just not a big deal. Personally, I like the loyalty factor, and the knowledge that they know that I will be there.

Also, there's some family history with alcoholism, and I don't really want to tempt fate. My dad/uncles/grandpa/great-grandpa are/were all alcoholics (on that side of the family at least), and I'd just rather not even have that opportunity.

[MikeCT]

I say try it sometime. If you are out to diner with friends have a glass of wine. Then see how you feel the next day about it.

edit: I only say this because it seems your reason for drinking has changed. If you are having that drink to enjoy the taste then I don't see any harm in doing so. It's the attitude that goes with it that's important.

[Evans, Marv]

Chris:
Sounds like you are trying to find an excuse to drink. That's the impression I got from reading your post. I used to drink and party pretty heavily at a younger age. Over the years I've just lost interest in it. I really don't care if I ever have anything alcoholic to drink, although I do really enjoy a good Margarita once in a while. If I suspected I were truly an alcoholic, I'd never touch it again. I smoked also and quit that. I guess I look at it as just one of the things you choose to do in life out of many things. There are other things to choose to do. Have you tried the non-alcoholic wines (they are probably like low-fat, healthy food)? Good luck with your dilema.

[mikester]

Only you can make the choice man...but a drinking problem can ruin your life and the really hurt the lives around you. That's a lot of guilt though that may not be warranted.

Everyeone who drinks should weight the consequences; you included. A drink can make dinner very nice but the effect more than a few can have on your life is the weight that needs to be measured.

If you really feel like you're in control...

[turbocarrera]

Risk/Reward

Huge risk - mediocre reward.

[A Quiet Boom]

Guys, love the input so far.

Marv,

Maybe my post was a bit over-zealous. I have a million reasons not to drink and if I am truly an alcoholic I've made peace with that years ago. It's just sometimes I feel like a quadrapelic (SP?) if only I hadn't tried sky diving...

MikeCT,

That's about how I've felt this month.

mikester,

I know all about the consequences. Don't tell my wife but drinking cost me the love of my life and gave me friends I really didn't have. I've found the real friends now. I want to think I've learned from my mistakes and I can move forward from here. Maybe alcohol just isn't for me, I can deal with that. I made myself a deal when I quit that when I retired I'd buy a bottle of vintage Chateau Lafite Rothschild, sit down and toast the golden years even if it meant that it was my last glass of wine ever.

Over the years I've had a few run ins with booze, all of them accidental. Spikes punch at a party, picking up the wrong glass at a wedding, expected NA campagne on New Year's and sipped my wifes by mistake. Ordered Tiramisu forgeting it contains alcohol etc. Everytime the bad memories came back and I strengthened my resolve. I guess I just wonder if that resolve is strong enough to test at this point. I also wonder that now that I've got a handle on the root cause of my original drinking problem am I OK to test the waters again. I should note that I would only attempt this endeavor with the full consent of my wife and a few close friends whom I trust to kick my butt if I find myself drifting out of control again.

[Isabo]

I think it would be best if you don't drink. Like many smokers who stop it only takes one to get started again and you did have a problem before.
Perhaps' though, you don't need to be so paranoid about alcohol in tiramisu etc.

[Don Ro]

Originally posted by turbocarrera
Risk/Reward

Huge risk - mediocre reward.

That's what I would be pondering.
But I hear ya. BTDT
.
A cunning bargaining campaign from within, maybe?
.
Good luck.

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by A Quiet Boom

So my question is this, do I follow conventional wisdom and never enjoy drinking in moderation or do I attempt drinking on a trial basis and see where it takes me?

huh!
Getting loaded to put a different view on perception is a personal choice.

I don't know enough about it to know the difference from moderately loaded to fully loaded. The angle of attack is the same. It seems that it's already a cognitive issue. It's a fully loaded cognitive issue waiting to happen imo, although I'm no prize either.

[greglepore]

Your doc is on the right track. You can become addicted to alcohol, but I don't believe it is necessarily itself strongly addictive unless your personality sets you up for that. You certainly had other issues which might have made you susceptible to the addiction the first time around. Nicotine, as one example, is much more inherently addictive.

That is a technical response, however. Tony's response is the wisest I think. But I think you could head down the road without falling off the cliff.

The other question I'd ponder is how others in your life will react. Those you love and who love you might not share your confidence, and their reaction could add stress to your relationships and life.

[stomachmonkey]

The problem is that you once sought alcohol as a crutch for something that is no longer an issue in your life.

How do you know that alcohol will not become a crutch for an entirely different set of circumstances.

I quit smoking for a year, thought I was strong enough for one or two here and there. Things got a little stressful at the office. I'm smoking again.

The problem is you justify it once, then "hey, it's only one more" "I handled the last one fine" "So I had one a week ago, it's been a while" "So i Had one 3 days ago, it's not like I'm smoking every day"
"It's just after lunch, helps me digest" "I only smoke after meals, 2x's a day, I've got it under control" "A pack lasts me a week." "I'm only smoking a half pack a day"

Baby steps and before you know it.

Good Luck

Scott

Why risk it.

Scott

[Mike(dat's me)]

I seem to be on the other side of most opinions on this one. I say, if its what you want, and you know your in control!, why not?

My father had a gambling addiction, it made his life hard for many years. I watched it.

Now I live in a Casino oriented area... I have been to the casino's, although rarely at first, now it has become more regular.

Guess what? I do feel the urges, stresses, desires that go with it. Just one win could make up for the nights losses... am I addicted? No. I am an intelligent adult. I take responsibility for my own actions. I know when enough is enough. I can turn my back and walk away. Self control.

I have never had a problem with alcohol, but I feel the same applies. You are a grown man. Just because society naysays drinking because you were excessive at one point doesn't mean you have to listen.

You are and adult, you only get to live once, enjoy it. I don't mean go jump into the deep end, but if a "drink" with dinner now and again makes you feel good or satisfies you, great.

If you begin to have a drink daily, or more often than you feel is appropriate, stop and re-evaluate. If alcohol controls you, and you know it, either become the master or stay away completely.

[asphaltgambler]

Tough call. Only you would know where the line really is. Being human, old habits /addictions can be the 'sirens' in our life. Being older and wiser you may be more in control now.

I quit drinking four years ago and do miss the social aspect of a glass of wine at gatherings. However, it is a small sacrifice (for me) to skip the vino rather than risk going back to the way I was. Only you can make the call. Maybe you should attend a few meetings to put it back in perspective. All the best!

[Moses]

Are you sure you were self-medicating panic disorder?

Thousands of people suffer panic disorder and don't drink. Alcoholism and panic disorder are entirely separate conditions that sometimes co-exist. Do you have a family history of alcoholism? How big a problem was alcohol for you at the peak of your drinking?

The risk/reward thing is stacked against you in a big way. Also, unless I'm completely off base, your doctor gave you some reckless and irresponsible advice.

[kang]

Lots of good points made above.

I’ve often wondered at the different advice for different addictive behaviors. Food addicts obviously cannot give up food for life. They are taught to manage their addiction and eat healthy. Why can’t an alcoholic be taught to consume alcohol normally?

Likewise for sex addicts: they are not expected to give up sex for life. They are taught healthy sexual behavior.

There are other addictive behaviors that fall into this category. Obsessive Compulsives learn that washing their hands a few times a day suffices; they learn that they don’t need to do it over and over. But they are not expected to give up washing their hands altogether.

Of course you can live without alcohol or tobacco, but you can’t live without food. You can live without sex, though. (I’m waiting for the jokes on this one…)

[speeder]

I myself would rather not drink one day at a time than "control" my drinking, I mean, what a drag it would be to white-knuckle it having only one beer when I really want 8 or 10.

"See? I did it!" Not my idea of a good time. I'll take sobriety any day, Thank you. But that's just me, the wonderful thing about us humans is that we have free will, it's your life. We also have the unique ability to not do something destructive even when the urge is there to some degree.

I agree w/ Moses that the whole "self-medicating for blah, blah...." rationale is BS I'm afraid. What did you do, sit around w/ some other P.D. patients w/o health insurance in a bar one night and devise a plan to combat it w/ malt liquor?? I can just imagine the clinical trials you put yourself through, had to look just like alcoholism.

Sorry for being sarcastic, but you should know that one of the key aspects of alcoholism/addiction is denial of reality if and when reality interferes w/ the next drink or drug, the level of self-delusion can be staggering. I have seen people, (not comparing your circumstance, just an illustration), who have been miraculously rescued from a cardboard box crack smoking addiction, gotten their health, livelyhood and freedom back turn around and relapse completely because their brilliant brain stem told them, "Does this mean that I can't drink Champaign at my wedding?"........

This particular person did not even have a girlfriend. But they made sure that there wasn't ever going to be a wedding, that's for sure.

It's only fair to disclose that I'm a real addict/alcoholic, and active in recovery and helping other (willing) people w/ their own recovery, but for me the price of not having 1 drink w/ dinner is a no-brainer. Believe me, I've tried to make it work until the wheels fell off, so to speak. Anything to not give up my security blanky.

I am not from the temperance union, and certainly not "anti-alcohol" by any means. For people who can enjoy it, including getting buzzed, I say "more power to them", as long as it's not making their life unmanagable. In AA, they define unmanagability as losing jobs, relationships, your health, becoming "shelter challenged", (thanks, Island), , etc....

The fact that you lost the love of your life due to drinking is about as strong a hint as it gets, that simply does not happen to normal drinkers. I myself have sort of an allergic reaction to alcohol: when I drink, I break out in handcuffs. Thank you, please tip the waitress.....

You are obviously an intelligent guy, Christian, despite being a Republican, so I'm sure that you'll come to the right conclusion. One thing to think about, IMO, is availing yourself of all of the free help that is out there in this area. All kidding aside, you are also pretty in touch w/ yourself but if you are an alcoholic it is a biatch to go through life treating it yourself alone, again just IMO. Support systems outside the house do wonders for making mountains into molehills in this area. Your wife and family can love you to death, but unless they have gone through the same thing, it's hard to relate. Good luck, brother.

Agree with Moses on the DR advice. I will ad that I believe I could have a beer or a glass right now and be fine. The question that I ask myself is, would I stop with that one or two drinks like most people do? I really don't know. What I do know is that if I crossed that road, it may lead to some rationalization to go to the third, forth, fifth drink and then I'm back where I was.

My life ain't perfect now, but it's a hell of a lot better than the years I was drinking. I do applaud you for coming to the forum and asking opines. It's a bit like a virtual meeting.

[speeder]

And Kang, comparing alcoholism to "food addiction" is faulty in this case. You are correct if you mean that some people have an unhealthy relationship w/ food, using it to replace something else that is missing in their life, but the treatment is much more difficult w/ food since as you mention, one cannot give up eating.

Using the food model for all other destructive behavior is usually the brainchild of an addict. Maybe we can send compulsive gamblers back into the casino w/ only $300 worth of chips, then when those are gone, they will leave, right?

Alcoholism is more analogous to the casino example than food, IMO.