Am I an As*hole??

[AFJuvat]

Those of you who know me will probably chime in with a "Yes you most definately are!" Hear me out on this one first..

I'm married with two usually wonderful kids (ages 13 and 11)

After coming home from work last night, I took the dog for a walk 9installing swimming pool, backyard fence is down)

After the dog completes his business, I take him back in - my son makes mention of a dog mess stain on the den carpet (the dog had gotten sick earlier).

Somewhat miffed that he noticed the mess and did nothing about it, I told him to go clean it up.

15 minutes pass, nothing happening, mess still there. I start yelling for son to get his As* in there and clean it up.

At the same time, son has been whining to mom about not wanting to clean up the mess. Wife finally yells that fine, she will do it.

Son, sensing trouble, goes to bed. I order son out of bed and tell him once again to clean up the mess.

Wife starts yelling at me that she will do it - I start yelling that my point was, I told him to do it and damnit, he was going to do it.

Son, giving me dirty looks, walks into den. I repeat me displeasure about him finding the mess and not cleaning it up and then further, whining to mom about not wanting to clean it until she agreed to do it.

Son makes terrible mistake at this point and starts yelling at me....

After the beating, wife continues to yell that she will do it. I'm so angry at this point, I cannot see straight. I go down the street to the local pub to have a few Guinnesses and cool off.

Naturally, son is not speaking to me at this point, wife is not speaking to me at this point. I do not feel I did anything wrong. I'm pis*ed at her for contridicting me in front of the kids.

**for those of you who do not believe in hitting children - sorry, that is how I was raised, and that is how my kids are raised I don't believe in time-outs, and I do not reason with children I am the parent and you will do as I say - this is not a democracy, this is a benevolant dictatorship. In any case, he was smacked a few times across the mouth...

So, who is wrong here? Am I being an unreasonable as*hole?

AFJuvat

[Dantilla]

I have never found yelling to be an effective form of communication.

[Tim Hancock]

AF, I feel your pain. I occasionally end up in the same boat (I married a widow w/ two young daughters) as my wife, in the heat of the moment, will sometimes side with poor 15 yr daughter who after watching TV for 1hr still has not done what she was told twice all-ready. When you find the solution, let me know!

[RickM]

I was raised with the belt and the back of my father's hand....was tough sometimes as I was the typical overactive boy.
Anyway, I've never had to hit my 8 yo daughter to discipline here, not that I wouldn't but it hasn't been necessary. Maybe because she's a female and smart enough to know not to F with me ....I don't know.
But one thing that my wife and I agreed to early on was that we would absolutely not contradict one another when it came to discipline. IMO, the most important rule to follow. If there is a dispute amongst my wife and I we discuss away from my daughter and get back to her with a decision. Once they see an alternative they will always play that hand.

[bryanthompson]

Kids are supposed to respect their parents, and it's incredibly disrespectful for him to have noticed the mess then to have told you about it; just taking for granted that you do everything. Not only that, but for him to have just not done it even after you said... The dirty looks he gave when finally doing it... I think you did the right thing. I'd have probably lost it.

I remember myself doing exactly what your son did. Except it was a cat that had thrown up on the kitchen floor. I woke up early and was watching cartoons, got some cerel and noticed the mess. I quickly got what I needed and went back to 'toons. When my dad got up, he noticed the mess and asked if I noticed it. I lied and said that I hadn't, when that would have been totally impossible. He told me somewhat nicely, but forcefully the first time to clean it up... which I promptly put off until the show was over. Then the next show... about 45 minutes later, I got a little bit of a whooping and then cleaned up the mess. I was mad at him, as you'd expect, and tried not to talk to him again. That'll teach him, right? Well... a day goes by and I ended up talking to him again. I probably respected him and his rules more because of it.

You know the importance of discipline. Your wife just knows that it's chaos and it doesn't feel good, and your son just thinks he's getting picked on. You look like the bad guy because you handled it the way someone would if they wanted results.

[Moses]

Simple answer? Yes.

You are 100% wrong. In fact, what you did is criminal. If you did that in public and I saw it, you would be doing round 2 with me. You did not behave as a parent, but as a bully. You owe your son an apology and a promise that it won't happen again. Anger management therapy for you is a must.

If you had said you turned him over your knee and spanked him, we could have a civil discussion about parenting and I would likely be on your side. You hit your child in the face in anger. Shame on you. When he is big enough and he has had enough of your crap, he will deck you.

I just hope your son grows up to be a better man than his dad and the cycle of violence can stop.

[rcecale]

Hell yes, you were unreasonable. Why would you only stop after a "few" Guinness?

Actually, I agree with how you handled the situation. Sounds like the way I would have done it. Of course, I've been call an a--hole enough times in my day. (Even by people who claimed to love me!

Randy

[john_colasante]

Wow. I am not a parent so I can only speculate here. My opinion here is not going to be politically correct either.

You are the dominant figure in the family unit, or at least you should be. What you did was simply establish or reinforce your status as the leader of the pack. Right now (short term) your family might think you are an a-hole, but I think secretly they are really thanking God that you have the balls as their leader to establish yourself as their protector and look out for the family. In the long run, you are being respected bigtime.

[RallyJon]

Sounds like it's too late now. Your son's behavior means you've already lost him--to what degree I don't know. Asserting some sort of primal physical dominance may work for animals, but people are too smart for that. Keep managing your son that way and he may well grow up to despise you, rather than respect and love you (which is the goal, right?)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against spanking for discipline. But if you find you have to beat the kid to get his attention, you're WAY off the right path.

Oh, and you're absolutely right to be pissed at your wife. She made the problem much worse. Disagree with her in private maybe, but never let the kid see you argue about this sort of thing.

[skipdup]

I think it depends on how you "smacked" him.

If I had yelled at my father, it would have been much worse than getting smacked. Disrespect was not tolerated and I knew it. Anything else he was VERY fair, and his punishments were quite light, compared to mom. Dad lowering his voice was the scariest thing that could EVER happen!

If you beat your son, get therapy.

If you slapped the mouth that was yelling at you, to show that this behavior would not be tolerated under any circumstances, I think it might be OK. It depends.

[/drphil]

Viera? I think I grew up just south of you.

-Skip

[legion]

You did the right thing. I grew up seeing far too many kids who learned to play parents off of one another to avoid doing anything either parent ever asked of them. What became of these kids?

One (last I heard) was a full-time drug dealer servicing college students in Montana, after having dropped out of that school after only half of a semester.

One works as a midnight baker at a grocery store. Lives by himself, and his only other activities are video games and pot.

One has, by my count, had 40+ different minimum wage jobs in the past couple of years. He also has outstanding warrants in Texas.

These were my best friends growing up. I remember complaining about how strict my parents were and how "cool" their parents were (no chores, no curfews, no punishment). Guess who is gainfully employed, happily married, and has a p-car?

[Tim Hancock]

Mentioning to your wife that you need to present a united front helps, but my wife forgets in the heat of the arguement sometimes.


Disclaimer for the righteous MOSES:

I do not hit my daughters, but if I had a teenage backtalking son, a smack across a back talking mouth might be appropriate.

If someone in public tried to tell me how to handle my unruly child, that person better hope.... Well never mind.

[MotoSook]

If I had done that to my dad, I'd been sleeping on the porch! Discipline does not equate to a lack of love, a lesson I learned for a very strict Asian father.

I have two "step-sons" and they HAVE to clean up after themselves. It iritates the hell out of me when they try to get mom to side with them, but she knows most of the time, that we are not to contradict each other. But they will try to get us to contradict each other..when i know about it..it's made clear that stuff is not acceptable in our house.

Mom should not have said she would clean it up. It sets a precedence for future issues between you and your son. My mom never stepped in and we (7 kids) knew that dad only had to say something once! We grew up loving our parents....

Kids are too soft these days, and I see it in kids that come to play with our kids. Parents can be too PC and busy to teach their kids discipline with a loving hand. They have a fraction of the respect for adults that I and my friends had for adults when we were kids.

..who's dog is it? If the dog means anything to your son, make him walk the dog and clean after it, feed it. Otherwise get rid of the dog!

[Eric 951]

You were being an *******, but also a good parent at the same time. Alot of folks don't realize that(as a parent) you can't always be a friend to children--you have to put your foot down in certain situations--wether the kid likes it or not.

I would have whooped his ass too.

All of the folks who feel that spanking is the same thing as child abuse need an ass-whooping themselves. Since they are so concerned with how other people raise their kids, (and wouldn't hesitate to call the authorities if they saw you (gasp) spank your child) why don't they pony up some $$$ to help you with things such as vacinations, dental visits, new shoes and clothes and extra food for the child. After all--they think they know what is best for your kids, right?

[gaijindabe]

I'm no Dr. Phil...

Consistancy is best, rather than mixed messages. Both parents have got to be on the same page regarding rules and responsibilities. It looks as though your son is playing one parent of against the other. I dont know if the boy is the 11 or 13 year old, but he is probably well practiced at this. After what happened, this situation is only made worse..
As for hitting kids, it is just not a good idea. They tend to grow up and get bigger, just as you are slowing down.. And they grow up see violence as a as a way to solve problems and establish status. I went through school and had more than a few fights with kids who had issues at home.. Like a good argument is lost once you yell, a good point is lost once you hit. I would never talk back to my dad EVER, and he it by force of personality.
Two times I can remember being spanked - playing in the road, I never did that again. And for hitting my sister, and boy did I deserve it!

[Moses]

I truly can't believe you people.

He says he "beat" his son. Over what? Cleaning up dog crap.

What purpose did the beating serve? Only to express the rage of the father. There are thousands of ways to get a mouthy, lazy teen in line (I know, I have one). Threaten to throw away his CD's if he doesn't respond. Then do it. You teach a child respect by behaving respectfully. Just curious, since you are the "man" of the house and run a benevolent dictatorship, do you also beat your wife when her attitude needs adjusting?

You know what, you know you are wrong. That explains the Guiness and the public plea for support. If you feel guilty, there may be some hope for you.

[motion]

Yes, you are an *********. And you have an anger management problem. You need help.

[skipdup]

He says he "beat" his son. Over what? Cleaning up dog crap.

I thought it was clear he slapped his son b/c he was yelling at him.

- Skip

[stomachmonkey]

Hmmm, you were right AND wrong.

You were right that he should have cleaned it w/o a prompt but certainly there should have been no question after you asked him to.

Your wife should have backed you. But the two of you should have gone somewhere private to discuss it calmly and then presented a united front.

You were wrong to hit him especially across the mouth. If you got to that point then you need to realize that you totally lost control of your son and the situation.

I doubt this is the first time you have disciplined him in this manner, if that approach works then you should not have had an issue in the first place, correct?

I was raised by a southern military guy who would make you go out and get a tree branch so he could hit you with it. Talk about a mind f__k, "boy, go get me something to hit you with"

And Moses is correct, when my brother was 17 he'd had enough of my fathers crap and went after him. That was 24 years ago and they still have a very rocky relationship .

I inherited my fathers temper, difference is that I can recognize when Mr Hyde is about to take over and I don't let it happen.

I spanked my daughter once, then I went into my bedroom and cried. How could I hurt the thing that I love more than anything else in this world. Never ever again no matter how crazy she makes me.

Again Moses is right, she gets out of line and I deny her whatever she happens to care about most. She's addicted to flav-o-ice, you know frozen colored sugar water in a plastic sleeve.

I just quietly go to the freezer, pull a couple out while she is watching and toss em in the trash. You'd be amazed how fast she responds.

Get it under control, you are raising a bully at best, or worse you could be destroying his self esteem. Either way not good.

[Moses]

Originally posted by Tim Hancock


If someone in public tried to tell me how to handle my unruly child, that person better hope.... Well never mind.

We are not talking about spanking.

If someone beats a 13 year old kid in front of me, even his own, we will do 'bidness.