$57.04 to fill up the p-car...

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Originally posted by gaijindabe
Not to change the topic in off-topic...., but what new cars get the best MPG??

GIYF

http://origin.bankrate.com/brm/news/auto/20030312a1.asp


Top 10 fuel-efficient cars

Rank
Model
Car type
Overall mpg
City mpg
Highway mpg

1
Honda Insight (manual)
Small car
51
36
66

2
Toyota Prius
Small car
44
35
50

3
Volkswagen Golf GLS TDI (manual)
Small car
41
29
54

4
Toyota Echo (manual)
Small car
38
29
46

5
Honda Civic Hybrid
Small car
36
26
45

6
Volkswagen Jetta GLS TDI (manual)
Small car
32
22
46

7
Toyota MR2
Sporty car
31
25
36

8
Mini Cooper
Sporty car
30
23
38

9
Honda Civic EX
Small car
29
20
41

10
Toyota Corolla LE
Small car
29
20
39

[911boost]

Dennis,

Just be careful chipping the TDI, because they are so dang reliable as they come from the factory....

Bill

[speeder]

Originally posted by BSiple
Dennis,

Just be careful chipping the TDI, because they are so dang reliable as they come from the factory....

Bill

Thank you, yes I will research it first. I won't do it if it turns out that it's a dumb thing to do.

[ubiquity0]

Originally posted by speeder
That chart is interesting in that it does not include the last year or two, which I'm guessing would show gasoline to be a lot more expensive now than anytime in the last 20 years. Adjusted for inflation.

yep- there has been quite a bit of action since January '04:
http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/graphs/retail_graph.html

then: $1.60 gallon regular
now: $2.60 gallon regular

[jkarolyi]

So after all the whiny liberals (Speeder) finished whining about gas prices, what have we learned. Gas is not nearly as high as it was in 1980, and those big bad evil oil companies (ones you can buy stock in if you want to share in their supposed wealth) are making record profits.

It doesn't take an economics professor to tell you that when the demand of a product goes up, so do the profits of the companies selling that product. Look at the housebuilding companies...same record profits because houses are in demand. Oil companies take a percentage of the gas prices we pay as profit...when oil prices rise due to demand (EDIT or political instability), their profits go up the same percentage.

If you want to blame anyone, blame the millions of soccer moms and commuters driving Suburbans alone to work. Supply and demand, folks, nothing more.
__________
Speeder's favorite flipper

[speeder]

No, you're my least favorite liar.

You'd make a good corporate spokeshole.

[widebody911]

It doesn't take an economics professor to tell you that when the demand of a product goes up, so do the profits of the companies selling that product.

Can you cite for us the recent stratospheric rise in demand in the last few weeks?

[nostatic]

but the oil companies keep saying there is increased demand, so it must be true...

it must be true...

there's no place like home...

[widebody911]

What gets me is the lengths the GWB-groupies will go to defend this stuff. It's analagous to the battered housewife with two black eyes and a bloody lip on "COPS" saying "But I love him! I deserved it!"

[gaijindabe]

This whole thread is silly. A chat group with high performance cars as the one thing we have in common - and you guys want to complain and see sinister forces at work over the unfair price of gas?? Imagine what the guy putt-putting along in his Hyundai is thinking as your P-car zooms by...

BTW - is anyone out there heating with coal? How much coal do you need to = 100 gallons of home heating oil? How much is it per pound? Per BTU??

[speeder]

Originally posted by jkarolyi
Supply and demand, folks, nothing more.
__________
Speeder's favorite flipper

This is a bald-faced lie. Pump prices of gasoline have doubled in the last 24 months, and it is not due to a corresponding increase in demand over that time. It has been widely reported, even in conservative papers, that the run-up in oil prices is a result of "political events", ie. the Iraq war and its resulting terrorism and disruption of oil supply from Iraq, plus, (and this is the main reason), the fear of future disruptions due to "political events" and/or wars.

If you know anything about markets, the one thing that markets don't like is uncertainty. In the opinion of the world oil market, GWB and his policies have created an extremely destabilising force in the ME. THis is something that AQ by itself never managed to do, even after 9/11, the USS Cole, the '93 WTC attack, etc... As I've said so many times before, we are playing right into the hands of the worst forces in the world and enriching the greediest, most over-fed pigs at the same time. Beautiful, ain't it?

[gaijindabe]

Originally posted by speeder
As I've said so many times before, we are playing right into the hands of the worst forces in the world and enriching the greediest, most over-fed pigs at the same time. Beautiful, ain't it?

9 out of 10 Ford Excursion owners loading up at the mega-box store are sure to agree....

[jkarolyi]

>but the oil companies keep saying there is increased demand, so it must be true...

I don't need anyone to tell me its true. Take a look around you...compared to 10 years ago, how many more monster SUVs and trucks do you see? Trucks outsell cars these days 52% to 48. Look at China's car sales going through the roof.

Yes, Speeder, political instability does affect prices and it is partly responsible for the recent surges, same problem as 1979 when Carter was president and Iran was in trouble. Long term peace (at the expense of short-term turmoil) in the middle east is GWB's and Blair's goal, and it's clear by the re-election of GWB and most likely Blair that others see this too. I will send Speeder a check for a free fill-up ($50) if gas prices haven't stabilized to a reasonable $2 a gallon (probably less) in two years.

Again, no conspiracy, just your typical market ups and downs as we've seen it through many presidencies. Fill up for $50 and be glad you don't live in socialist Europe where people pay more than this all the time. Now THEIR prices are a conspiracy to look into...

BTW...Speeder, this is all in good fun on my part. I bet if we ever meet (we both live in LA) we would get along grandly talking Porsches.

[layzee]

This is pretty gratifing to us Europeans, it's been a long time coming from our point of view.

How much do you think you should be paying for gas?

When it was 99c a gallon there is almost no incentive not to consume it with impunity. Now it seems people in the US are taking stock of their energy use and thinking about car trips. Considering this is a finite resource and it going to cause a ****load of trouble in the coming decades don't you think it's time as a nation you took a second look at the way you use energy?

Anyway, I just hope there's some real long term shift to a more economical view of energy use.

For real doom and gloom check out this site:

www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net

[cowtown]

Originally posted by layzee
This is pretty gratifing to us Europeans, it's been a long time coming from our point of view.

I don't understand. Why is it gratifying? The UK pays the same price for Arab oil that the USA does. Your tax structure is what's making it so expensive. Taxes are about 75 percent of U.K. gasoline and diesel prices (Bloomberg).

Would you be happier if you paid as much as us, or if we paid as much as you? If it's the former, that's a sound economic decision. If it's the latter, that just seems like illogical retribution.

[gaijindabe]

The Europeans and the Japanese tax the snot out of fuel not only to raise taxes, but to lower demand as well..

There are arguments on both sides. Why should someone in the wide open spaces of the USA pay prohibitive taxes just to move around?

But then again, if we really believe in supply and demand - and that how we chose to move around and what we choose to drive is impacted by real costs - a healthy dose of gas taxes would lower consumption...

So is that money we would be adding to tax coffers, (in place of other taxes hopefully) rather than shipping it out of the country...??

[layzee]

I know its all down to taxation, just I am pleased to see finally that the US is forced into re-evaluating the amount of fuel it uses.

I have no desire to see the US economically crippled through fuel taxation, but the auto industry and consumers need to become more efficient.

[KNS]

Can anyone tell me how diesel got to be so expensive? It used to be as cheap or cheaper than regular gas. It should be, it's lower down on the refining tree. I don't get it.....

[speeder]

Originally posted by KNS
Can anyone tell me how diesel got to be so expensive? It used to be as cheap or cheaper than regular gas. It should be, it's lower down on the refining tree. I don't get it.....

My theory, admittedly quite cynical, is that as gas prices go up so does the attraction of a diesel for consumers and the oil companies are simply mining profits in as mercenary a fashion as possible. For large pickup trucks, I can't imagine anyone not wanting the excellent diesel motors available now. TDIs and CDIs are going to become very popular in the U.S. w/ $3.00 gas.

The problem is that big trucks and trains all run on diesel, so look for across the board inflation real soon, which is something we haven't seen in awhile. It truly baffles me trying to imagine a more horse***** set of people to be in power right now. All former oil executives, what a freaking coincidence.

[AndrewM28]

I paid CND$1.16/liter for 94 octane today. Think there is 4.5 liters to the gallon. CND$5.22/gallon or USD equivalent $4.27/gallon.