F1: so can we now ask, "wtf is up with Ferrari?"

[nostatic]

I'll go against the tide here, and say that I like refueling and tire changes. You get the drivers going 10/10s, and bring the team aspect into the sport. More importantly, it becomes a chess match as to pit strategy.

That being said, I can also see the attraction of fuel 'em up, and let 'em run...may the best driver win.

[scottmandue]

Originally posted by nostatic
I'll go against the tide here, and say that I like refueling and tire changes. You get the drivers going 10/10s, and bring the team aspect into the sport. More importantly, it becomes a chess match as to pit strategy.

I agree with that.
As with most sport they are ruining F1 with too many rules IMHO.

Cutting cost by limiting tires? WTF how much of a F1 budget is spent on Tires?

Besides F1 has always been the ultimate racing series with the ultimate cars... start cutting back and it might as well be CART.
Not that I don't like CART, I do, but your average Joe already can't tell the difference between F1, CART, or IRC.

Just my two cents.

[johncj8989]

20 million? Look at this.


Wind Tunnel Operation :
Ferrari 11.25m$
McLaren 9.96m$
BMW-Williams 9.76m$
Toyota 8.95m$
Sauber-Petronas 8.78m$
B.A.R.-Honda 7.80m$
Renault 6.18m$
Jaguar/Red Bull-Cosworth 3.95m$
Minardi-Cosworth 3.20m$
Jordan-Ford 380,000 $
Total 70,210,000 $


Cars Manufacturing Costs :
Toyota 3.40m$
Ferrari 3.20m$
McLaren 2.70m$
B.A.R.-Honda 2.40m$
BMW-Williams 2.25m$
Sauber-Petronas 1.70m$
Renault 1.62m$
Jaguar/Red Bull-Cosworth 1.45m$
Minardi-Cosworth 750,000 $
Jordan-Ford 640,000 $
Total 20,110,000 $


Research & Developement :
McLaren 25.50m$
Toyota 25.10m$
BMW-Williams 22.60m$
Ferrari 22.40m$
Renault 18.70m$
Sauber-Petronas 18.06m$
B.A.R.-Honda 17.40m$
Jaguar/Red Bull-Cosworth 11.40m$
Jordan-Ford 7.50m$
Minardi-Cosworth 7.02m$
Total 175,680,000 $


Operating Cars At Testing
McLaren 64.96m$
BMW-Williams 63.04m$
Ferrari 62.72m$
B.A.R.-Honda 56.64m$
Toyota 53.06m$
Renault 28.40m$
Sauber-Petronas 20.00m$
Jaguar/Red Bull-Cosworth 4.88m$
Jordan-Ford 4.20m$
Minardi-Cosworth 1.78m$
Total 359,680,000 $


Team Salaries
Ferrari 48.30m$
Toyota 44.40m$
McLaren 36.12m$
BMW-Williams 35.64m$
Renault 34.20m$
B.A.R.-Honda 33.30m$
Sauber-Petronas 32.40m$
Jaguar/Red Bull-Cosworth 26.28m$
Jordan-Ford 15.40m$
Minardi-Cosworth 7.60m$
Total 313,640,000 $


Engine Budgets :
Toyota 192.50m$
B.A.R.-Honda 181.50m$
BMW-Williams 169m$
Ferrari 165m$
McLaren 144m$
Renault 121m$
Jaguar/Red Bull-Cosworth 66m$
Sauber-Petronas 28m$
Jordan-Ford 10.50m$
Minardi-Cosworth 10m$
Total 1,087,500,000 $


Driver Salaries
Ferrari 51m$
McLaren 31m$
Toyota 24m$
Renault 11m$
B.A.R.-Honda 8m$
BMW-Williams 8m$
Sauber-Petronas 4m$
Jaguar/Red Bull-Cosworth 3m$
Minardi-Cosworth 600,000$
Jordan-Ford 500,000$
Total 141,100,000 $


Travel & Accommodation :
Ferrari 17.61m$
McLaren 12.72m$
Toyota 11.74m$
BMW-Williams 9.10m$
B.A.R.-Honda 7.72m$
Renault 7.33m$
Sauber-Petronas 6.65m$
Jaguar/Red Bull-Cosworth 4.90m$
Jordan-Ford 4.16m$
Minardi-Cosworth 950,500 $
Total 82,880,000 $


Operating Cars @ Races :
Ferrari 35.85m$
Toyota 28.30m$
BMW-Williams 26.16m$
McLaren 24.13m$
Renault 23.90m$
Sauber-Petronas 22.89m$
B.A.R.-Honda 22.14m$
Jordan-Ford 20.33m$
Jaguar/Red Bull-Cosworth 18.59m$
Minardi-Cosworth 9.77m$
Total 232,060,000 $


Corporate Entertaining :
BMW-Williams 10.04m$
Ferrari 8.91m$
McLaren 8.24m$
B.A.R.-Honda 6.69m$
Renault 6.21m$
Toyota 5.76m$
Sauber-Petronas 3.96m$
Jaguar/Red Bull-Cosworth 2.59m$
Jordan-Ford 1.35m$
Minardi-Cosworth 400,000 $
Total 54,150,000 $


Final Costs :
Ferrari 426.24m$
Toyota 397.21m$
McLaren 359.33m$
BMW-Williams 355.59m$
B.A.R.-Honda 343.59m$
Renault 258.54m$
Sauber-Petronas 146.44m$
Jaguar/Red Bull-Cosworth 143.04m$
Jordan-Toyota 67.78,m$
Minardi-Cosworth 39.25 m$
Total 2,537,010,000 $

[rhk109]

Originally posted by scottmandue


Cutting cost by limiting tires? WTF how much of a F1 budget is spent on Tires?

I believe the tire rule was aimed at slowing the cars down, not reducing tire costs.

[pwd72s]

Restrictor plates might be the answer. NASCAR rules, right? In all seriousness, to answer the original question of what happened to Ferrari? Look for Ferrari to soon trade on past racing glory while it's engineers develop a sports ute...or better yet, a popular hybrid vehicle that delivers superior fuel economy with italian style. Maybe a 4 door sports sedan?

[legion]

Originally posted by Alfred1
Ok, so make it a paltry $100 million per year per team budget cap.

How could that realistically be tracked? Manufacturers will just hide costs in other projects.

[Deschodt]

You can't limit anything. If they have the $$$ they'll spend it. Any attempt to reduce costs increased them. Sure the new 2 race engines last ..2 races but they cost more to develop. The V8 will also incur new development costs... Ban testing and they'll build better wind tunnels. Ban those and they'll build supercomputers...

Testing is the big issue right now... It's expensive all right... The constructors except Ferrari have an agreement as to how many days they can test, but Ferrari on account of being the only good team on Bridgestones and having 2 test tracks and 128 test pilots decided not to join this merry band.... Hey, whatever...

It's just a matter of time until the constructors say "the hell with this pact" and go test some more. Just as soon as Ferrari wins a race, methink ! Me, I'd prefer a one tire series so you can judge the cars on merits. I'd force all the engine suppliers to supply 2 teams... Also force top teams to sell their one year old chassis to 3rd tier teams. Then reduce Aero some more... I still have goosebumps thinking of that race where Alesi ran on slicks in the rain - rally style, a few years back !

[CRH911S]

I compare what's going on in FIA today with what the AMA did to professional motocross in the late 70's. Honda was the team to beat and had a budget to match. Their factory machinery was always leading technology and this, along with large amounts of money, attracted the best riders. Ultimately this move eventually increased the general public interest in the other three manufacturers. But was it a good thing for the sport?

Now, regarding F1. Is it headed in the same direction? Unfortunately I think it is. The biggest threat to European dominance in this sport are Honda and Toyota. The recent rule changes don't necessarily benefit them or anyone else. But are they leading to a drive what you sell mentality like the one that killed the one-off exoctic motocross bikes of the 70's?

So what is wrong with using fuel as ballist? Is F1 turning into a spec class or what?

[scottmandue]

Originally posted by pwd72s
Look for Ferrari to soon trade on past racing glory while it's engineers develop a sports ute...or better yet, a popular hybrid vehicle that delivers superior fuel economy with Italian style. Maybe a 4 door sports sedan?

Oh gawd what a stupid thing for a sports car manufacturer to do!


Again instead of adding rules upon rules how about limiting engine size? Like I said F1 is supposed to be the most technological advanced racing on the planet... bottom line that is there claim to fame IMHO
I also agree the the main purpose of the rule changes was to knock Ferrari down a few notches.

[Jims5543]

Originally posted by scottmandue
I also agree the the main purpose of the rule changes was to knock Ferrari down a few notches.

Agreed and it has worked. Congrats FIA! You have taken a team from world champion to struggling for a win in one season.


One of the things I hate about motorsports Can't beat them ban them.

Look into the Miller Auto's back in the 30's and their ban from Indy Racing, this was in response to the urging from the big three that the Miller 1-2-3 sweeps were bad for the sport.

Somehow the governing bodies feel a dynasty is bad for motorsports. I watch to see who will step up and beat the best. Unfortunately I don't feel this is happening this year. Rules have taken out the best and now other teams have a shot.

Eddie Irvine made an interesting observation about Ferrari yesterday:

Explaining why he thinks Schumi's boring, Irvine continued: "I couldn't believe Michael at Imola. All he had to do was pass him (race winner Fernando Alonso) down the inside. There was no point finishing second to Alonso."

The Ulsterman added: "Maybe he is getting past it. Three years ago he would have done it."

[Harlan Chinn]

Hey, Some of those figures (above) look like pro-athlete's salaries from many of our sports teams. Pretty obscene, in my opinion...It's nice to finally see someone else on the winner's podium besides Michael Schumacher.

[air-cool-me]

nascar restrictor plates?
if the F1 world is supposed to be on the leading edge.... why not let them work on the leading edge of something that benefits me~!
how about limiting fuel flow?
that might lead to lean-burn technology and more MPG for my new car in 10years!


might lead to more efficient use of the energy available in the gasoline?

[GettinHeadStuds]

2.5 BILLION?

Hah.