If I quit, this place will go under!

[mikester]

Len, I have a brother too. You older or younger?

[lendaddy]

I'm actually younger by a couple years. Not a single person has guessed correctly who is older in 10 years if that tells you anything. He still has a highschool clique mentality and it shows. Being "cool" is the most important thing to him. I've had endless discussions on the topic of "true happiness" with him and even thought we were making some headway, but I think I was incorrect.

[dd74]

Len - what is the family business? What do you guys do?

[stevepaa]

Len, tough times for you.
My grandfather had a business, but only one son worked there. He now runs it and the other two are silent marginal partners. They do not interfere or engage on anything but yearly tax summaries. If they had worked together, they would not be friendly now, and the business would have died with my grandfather.
And even that guy's son did not join the family firm.

I like the idea of giving weekly balance sheet summaries to them. They do need to see what they are doing.

I know I would drive my son nuts if he worked for me.

Good luck, but I think your best avenue is to leave.

And your brother needs help. But most times, they will not seek it until near disaster.

Be very careful about loaning any money to relatives. I have learned the hard way on that one.

And as disheartening as it may sound, sometimes you just have to sever ties with "family" as you have your own to worry about.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by dd74
Len - what is the family business? What do you guys do?

It is a factory. We work alot with stainless steel tubing (cutting and end finishing) for automotive and consumer products. We also do tubular assemblies/products and CNC machining and welding and buffing and bending and vapor degreasing and grinding, etc.... I think you get the idea. We work in volume, we are not a job shop. We usually have production runs that last 2-10 years on a project.

We are not really a manufacturer, more of a service company to the industry since we don't make many finished products.

[dd74]

Okay, this is just a wild shot, but it sounds like you're about to implode: there's tons of businesses around the country that do that sort of work. One example: small bicycle manufacturers who build custom steel frames. Have you thought of checking our a like-minded business that deals in the same products as yours? You obviously have the experience.

P.S. I hope your dad or brother aren't reading this thread over your shoulder.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by dd74

P.S. I hope your dad or brother aren't reading this thread over your shoulder.

I thought of that, but I don't care either way really. I have been nothing but honest and have said all of this to their faces before.

Regarding the other fields, I have given it some thought. I have drawings and schematics out the yin yang from the last few years ideas. Like I said, lots of decisions. Oh yea, the imploding thing:

I'm as close as I've ever been, that's for sure. I don't see it happening though, I'm a pretty stable composed guy. Who knows though, when in Rome

[BGCarrera32]

I think you would find life just as depressing moving on to be employed by someone else. You obviously have your head screwed on straight and have seen an awful lot in your family business career upon which to build from. No time like the present to lay the groundwork for your own business...somthing that can be started on the side, time spent at night and on a Saturday. Perhaps its time to limit your involvement with the family business, toe the line on your hours and financial input, stop arguing and let go. Understandably, it will be incredibly painful given your time put into it and financial investment. I would get a clear understanding of what your liabilites are to the current family business and lay the groundwork for your own enterprise (which by the way it doesn't sound like your brother and dad are the driving force of the place), and when the day arrives..."you still want to be family but working with them in that environment is no longer an option". If your brother is really as nuts as you make it sound you have the responsibility to protect your family and your interests without his b.s.. Perhaps I've made this sound overly simplistic, but on the bright side...you're healthy, the wife's healthy...no time like the present...after the little squirt is on his way for a year or two then kick into gear.

edit: AND for what its worth, just spending a few hours a week on the side laying the groundwork for your own deal, and excercising your options, building contacts, working new ideas...makes you feel a whole lot better at night than just focusing on how screwed up your day job is. Sorta like making your own light at the end of the tunnel...

[lendaddy]

Thanks for the advice so far, everyone I am really grateful.

But I want to be sure I am clear. My father is one of the hardest working individuals I have ever known. He built this company right out of Vietnam from nothing and ended up making an OK life for his family. He did this all with very little business sense, pure sweat.

My brother is good at what he does and shows signs of brilliance every now and then. He is self taught at CAD, robotic and CNC programming, machining, hydraulics, controls, etc... He has built or assisted in building (from scratch) several complex machines that we use. But he's emotionally disabled (now there's a term)

These guys should make for awesome teammates, either with or without me, I mean on paper it looks great. But in the real world it just doesn't work.

[RickM]

Originally posted by lendaddy
LOL, I actually told the two of them to watch that show together. They are actually MUCH worse than those two tools if you can believe it.

WTF am I dealing with? It's unreal.

Videotape them in action. When they're calm replay it for them. Then they'll see just how foolish they act. I'm not kidding.

[M.D. Holloway]

Lendaddy - every co I left, they went under - no joke! I'm serious. I am not sure it had anything to do with me directly but they went out of business or were bought out or changed the business focus. I am 6 for 6 to date!

[A Quiet Boom]

Hmmm, I work for my brother in laws company and I'm constantly complaining that I am not replaceable for any reasonable amount of money. My jobs include, technical sales, R&D (working on my 3rd patent), machinist, welder/fabricator, repairs and modifcation, network and server admin (I built all the computers), and I'm second level management one rung from the top (my brother in law). My complaint has always been that they have never given me the time to train anyone else to do most of the stuff I do. I'm it and that scares me because we are small, I mean what if I got laid up in a hospital for a few weeks/monthes? I feel this is a dangerous way to run a business. Sure we could hire out the machine work, repairs and fabrication that we need, even the network stuff but a lot of our jobs are time critical and if a machine is down I usually get them up and going very quickly. I have repeatedly asked for an assistant whom I can train to to a lot of this work an have not gotten one. Now I have no plans of ever leaving the company but as the company grows (which it is) it's becoming harder for me to keep up with all the tasks I have to accomplish. I believe everyone is replaceable but in my case the company I've worked hard to build up would be seriously hurt by my absence. It's gotten so bad that if I take a sick day or go on vacation I am guaranteed at least one phone call asking for my help. Last year I fell off a ladder and was out for two weeks, I was restricted to bed rest but spent at least two hours everyday either on the phone to work on logged into the network remotely. If they could just give me someone with a decent brain I could have them reasonably trained in about 6 monthes, at least enough to get by while I am out. The sad part is that they know this but have done nothing about it.

Maybe it's my personality, I have a need to learn every aspect of a business. Prior to this line of work I was an executive chef of two restaurants, both went under after I left. People are only replaceable if someone is available and qualified to fill their shoes before the company suffers too much.

[dd74]

Originally posted by LubeMaster77
Lendaddy - every co I left, they went under - no joke! I'm serious. I am not sure it had anything to do with me directly but they went out of business or were bought out or changed the business focus. I am 6 for 6 to date!

I'm close to that, too. Dot.com *****. I hated those schmucks with their la-la land b.s. business plans and no product to speak of.

Yeah, but the money was good...

[Dantilla]

Note to self: Don't hire LubeMaster77.

[jkarolyi]

Get out of the nutty family situation...I had to do it four years ago and never regret it. Tell them you love and respect them but can't work with them, nostalgia and sentiment be damned.

>On the upshot, today is my anniversary 8 years

Awesome! You seem to have a great wife and a kid on the way. You have a supportive family on your own without them. Take your savings, sell off most of your car fleet (I'll take the '77 Turbo), refi your house if you have one, work at Home Depot if you have to (they hire fast, don't need a degree, good benefits) and go to school part time. You'd be surprised how quick and easy it is to get a certificate in accounting or CAD design to get into a good paying job. Then maybe you can work on the engineering degree you want.

Don't feel too bad about the decisions you made in life. You made one good one with your wife (I assume). I've made every right decision career wise, I love my job, am extremely financially secure, and own three Porsches. But I'm 30 and all alone in the world with no wife or family to speak of, and probably will be forever. Everybody's got their issues...count your blessings, you'll be fine.

[M.D. Holloway]

Originally posted by Dantilla
Note to self: Don't hire LubeMaster77.

better note to self - Don't let Lubemaster77 go!

[jyl]

Even better note to self - get my biggest competitor to hire Lubemaster77.

[M.D. Holloway]

then arrange to have Lubemaster fired by a trumped up embezzlement, sexual harassment and espionage charges only after he sets up the product development and marketing/sales protocols that can only be done by him!

[jyl]

Do the charges have to be trumped up?

[lendaddy]

Update:

The cold war is heating up, the Cuban missile crisis is under way. The carnage yesterday was impressive. I really don't want to go too deep into detail, but it would make for good daytime drama.

Anyway, had a long talk with the wife and we have a basic plan that needs to be polished. I also need too see how things shake out here in the next week. Thanks again for the advice, I really appreciate it.