The New Right?

Shaun @ Tru6 · 06-27-2005, 04:18 AM

Care to guess how many in this group voted for Kerry in the last election? Hint: its the same number as WMD's found in Iraq.

Does the Left have anyone like this?

This is going to happen today up in Marblehead.

Kansas group to spew hate at local soldiers' funerals
By O’Ryan Johnson
Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - Updated: 05:39 AM EST

A radical Midwestern hate group plans to protest at the funerals of two local soldiers killed in action, claiming the slain heroes ``were cast into hell to join many more dishonorable Americans.''

The Westboro Baptist Church, proclaiming ``thank God for IEDs'' or roadside bombs, claims the 9/11 attacks and American deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan are God's vengeance on a nation that is tolerant of homosexuality.

``It's going to shock and enrage every person who sees it. That is our goal,'' said Margie Phelps, daughter of WBC leader Fred Phelps. The group is based in Topeka, Kansas, and has made headlines protesting homosexuality at school events, graduations and mainstream churches.

But when told about the group's plans, John Maloney, the father of slain Marine Capt. John Maloney, said his son died in Iraq to protect free speech, no matter how offensive.

``He fought and died for their right to do what they do,'' he said. ``I may not agree with what they do. This is still the United States of America, isn't it?''

In addition to protesting Maloney's funeral, the group also plans to protest the Marblehead funeral of Staff Sgt. Christopher N. Piper, a Green Beret, killed in Afghanistan.

``This kid was an American hero,'' Marblehead veterans service agent David Roberts said. ``I don't understand people like that. Any disrespect shown towards him and his family is beyond my imagination.''

Margie Phelps said her father is a self-declared prophet.

``He hasn't been sent to save. He's been sent to condemn,'' she said, adding that group members have protested the funerals of 11 slain soldiers across the nation in the past two weeks.

Phelps said the protests may be disruptive to family members but ``as long as it's being made into a public ordeal, then all bets are off.''

She added, ``Thank God for the mortar. Thank God for the shell that came from the gun. Thank God for the fact that it killed the fruit of America to punish it for its sins.''

But Maloney, still grieving for his son, said simply, “I think they're misdirected. I'll pray for them.''

lendaddy · 06-27-2005, 05:02 AM

Is this what you think the Right is about? Do you know anything about this group? This is basically one extended family of about 100 people that are nuts. Absolute nuts.

But to answer your question, yes the left has people like them too, you guys just have more of them

dtw · 06-27-2005, 05:18 AM

Shaun, c'mon, you're smarter than this. There's plenty of left wing nutjobs on this board I can count on to post divisive, provocative crap like this. I look to you for intelligent input from 'the other side'.

Jeff Higgins · 06-27-2005, 05:18 AM

Do you actually have access to their voting records, Shaun? From what I' have heard of these clowns in the past it seems they don't have much use for anybody but themselves. Haven't they condemmed Dubya in the past? I don't keep up with these folks enough to know. With the vast majority of the right supporting our troops if not the war, what makes you think anyone on the right embraces these nuts? I think the whole thing is conjecture and wishfull thinking on your part. Let's face it, there are nut cases out there that defy political classification. No one wants them.

350HP930 · 06-27-2005, 05:20 AM

Concidering that Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell tried to blame 9/11 on homos is this convoluted logic any great suprise?

Shaun @ Tru6 · 06-27-2005, 05:29 AM

OK, OK, you're right Dave. My apologies.

Can you believe people like this really exist?

The price of the Bill of Rights, worth it in the end, but a real PITA sometimes.

Superman · 06-27-2005, 06:00 AM

One more time. The definitions of "right" and "left," and the definitions of "Liberal" and "conservative" are quite twisted today. You guys on the right are offended by this comparison, and for good reason. Many of you are wise enough to respect what I'm going to say now: Many of us liberal thinkers are offended by the caricatures that we see here, not occasionally, but daily. "Liberal" has been given a very nasty reputation lately, for some very good political and marketing reasons.

One more time on this too: As I have said many times, you guys on the right should enjoy your marketing superiority as much as possible now. Because the pendulum will swing. And (fortunately in my view) it may swing HARD. Your "president" is just about the perfect guy to teach this nation why it has traditionally been politically liberal.

In the meantime, you guys on the right are going to have an emotional bruising while your party gets what the ruling party always gets. The blame. I honestly sympathize and I honestly feel bad for you, because even as much as we spew vitriol at one another, I know that many of you are not actually bloodthirsty, greedy, heartless cretins. I not only understand but also fully support your "freedom" agenda. We share that, and many other important principles. I just think many of you have been victimized by the conservative party in America. And it's going to be a rough road for it. And you. Too bad, since actually (I think only a few of you really understand this) the liberal party could and would be just as comfortable a home for you. Those whose vision of the Democratic Party comes from the marketing victories of the Right will disagree vigorously with this, but it's true.

The pendulum is going to swing. It always does. And then a political party that knows how to run government will come back into favor and power. And America will be well served. And frankly, I hope the pendulum swings HARD. Because I have not been fooled by the hatred spread about and toward "liberals" just like I am not fooled by the fallacy that these nutcases represent "conservatives."

lendaddy · 06-27-2005, 06:10 AM

I agree that the swing will happen, I disagree that it's headed back anytime soon. Congress is the telltale and it's getting more and more right. The dems held Congress for what, 40-50 years? And we've had it for 10-12? Most of that barely! Now were getting some good numbers going and things will happen.

But back to the point of this. I'm not "offended" really, but I gt tired of the left claiming the right is just religion. As if we have no ideology, only faith. It's a convenient portrait to paint for the left, but totally inconsistent with reality. I have not yet read this or even know what angle it comes from, but I saw the title of book that was "South Park Republicans". This cracked me up, cause if it means what I think it does, it's dead on with where my party is and is moving.

Superman · 06-27-2005, 06:18 AM

Agreed. You can always count on hearing some prime bull**** when someone points the finger toward the group they do not associate with and opens their mouth. There have been occasions in our discussions here (which I highly value, by the way), where we have stripped away the labels and assumptions and just clearly stated our hopes and interests. Then, together, we have noticed the many fallacies in our beliefs about the "other" guys. Madison Avenue has considerably less marketing skill than Capitol Hill. We are being deliberately fooled. Our core beliefs and values and interests are not so divergent as we have been led to believe.

928ram · 06-27-2005, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Concidering that Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell tried to blame 9/11 on homos is this convoluted logic any great suprise?

Convoluted logic is never a great suprise on this board.

Supe, no mirrors in your house?

Interesting article on the local Ed. page yesterday about how the left has politised religion; written from the POV of a black voter, he commented on how the generic label of "black voter" was the norm on the left while the public image they portrayed was the of only rich overly educated white males. On the religion front the most vocal of the left now considers regular church attendees as "religious right-wing nut-jobs", something that might raise a few eyebrows in a community which both votes left and attends church in very high numbers. (I couldn't help but think of PPOT as I read). The main point of the article was that the left could not survive without the black religious right-wing nut-job voting bloc; the group they stand on while raising themselves to pedestal height.

RallyJon · 06-27-2005, 06:51 AM

Quote:

I have not yet read this or even know what angle it comes from, but I saw the title of book that was "South Park Republicans".

Here's an overview. As the show's co-creator, Matt Stone, sums it up: "I hate conservatives, but I really ****** hate liberals." Certainly a very real phenomenon that the democratic party would be foolish to ignore.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Park_Republican

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by 928ram
Convoluted logic is never a great suprise on this board.

Supe, no mirrors in your house?

Interesting article on the local Ed. page yesterday about how the left has politised religion; written from the POV of a black voter, he commented on how the generic label of "black voter" was the norm on the left while the public image they portrayed was the of only rich overly educated white males. On the religion front the most vocal of the left now considers regular church attendees as "religious right-wing nut-jobs", something that might raise a few eyebrows in a community which both votes left and attends church in very high numbers. (I couldn't help but think of PPOT as I read). The main point of the article was that the left could not survive without the black religious right-wing nut-job voting bloc; the group they stand on while raising themselves to pedestal height.

A 'black voter' protests stereotypes by stereotyping everyone else? Hilarious. That is worthy of The Onion.

928ram · 06-27-2005, 08:01 AM

No stereotypes, maybe an observation or two that the far lefties might be uncomfortable with. Alot of paraphrasing on my part, not going to sit here and type out the article. I really don't see the stereotypes in how I jotted my thoughts down, nor were there any in the piece.

Moneyguy1 · 06-27-2005, 10:38 AM

Len..

"We have had it for ten to twelve years"...You a member of Congress?

"Power corrupts..Absolute power corrupts absolutely"

Careful what you ask for, you might actually get it.

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by 928ram
No stereotypes, maybe an observation or two that the far lefties might be uncomfortable with. Alot of paraphrasing on my part, not going to sit here and type out the article. I really don't see the stereotypes in how I jotted my thoughts down, nor were there any in the piece.

So "the black religious right-wing nut-job voting bloc" is not a stereotype? Huh.

928ram · 06-27-2005, 10:57 AM

Sarcasm; mine.

Sorry, should have gone with /sarcasm/"text"/sarcasm/, though evreyone would weed that out.

mikester · 06-27-2005, 11:00 AM

giving them any attention makes them successful. Walk by without a glance and they fail.

Superman · 06-27-2005, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 928ram
Supe, no mirrors in your house?

I have no idea what was meant by this, and I probably am better off this way. BTW, in case you are missing my point, I am suggesting that while stereotypes have enormous perceptual and marketing value, they are of limited value in actual factual discussion. It is not correct, nor honest, to pretend that this nation's conservatives are a bunch of torch-bearing witch-burning puritans. Just like it is not honest or accurate to pretend as though liberals are all baby-killing, America-hating pagans. Frankly, it has stunned me on several occasions to hear people saying that liberals do not favor citizens' personal freedoms and liberties. While I understand that this is a core conservative position, it is frankly a core liberal position as well. Trust me when I tell you that my hippie friends who could never be confused with a conservative, would be first in line to defend our collective rights to freedom and liberty.

So, we're not really that much different. Unless you've bought into the propaganda. The propaganda that's deliberately designed to drive a wedge between Americans for political marketing purposes.

928ram · 06-27-2005, 12:42 PM

Opposite side of the same tarnished coin. And what do the opposite sides of the same coin have in common???

Here's something along the liberal line: "A liberal is a man to broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel"

Superman · 06-27-2005, 01:06 PM

I still don't get it, Ram, if you're trying to tell me what the mirror remark was about. But again, it's very possible I don't want to know and I'm not dying of curiosity.

But the liberal remark strikes a cord. I have a sister who agonizes over NO decisions whatsoever. Each and every single decision she faces is a "no brainer." By contrast, I see nothing but various shades of grey. In spite of what many of you think.