Looting and my Grandpa - Page 12

skipdup · 09-03-2005, 02:13 PM

I don't see how poverty makes someone rape, murder, shoot at rescuers, shoot at helicopter evacuating the sick from hospitals, etc.

I do not believe the animals in NO are the same as me or anyone else. I don't know what they are, but they aren't like me or anyone I know.

Don't forget... The real trouble makers were NOT the folks at the Dome & convention center, who after days of starvation, decided enough was enough, went crazy and started killing and pillaging. The trouble makers were already "working" well before the suffering really started.

The excuses have already started. I see too many people (politicians, media, people here, etc) saying the violence is due to the immense suffering that took place. However, the time-line doesn't support that excuse.

- Skip

plain fan · 09-03-2005, 02:26 PM

Everyone there has a choice, either to rise above their situation or allow it to control their decisions. No one needs a plasma TV when there is no power.

livi · 09-03-2005, 03:49 PM

Did not make myself clear enough. I am not making excuses for looters or any other criminals. I would probably shoot them too in a dangerous situation !

What I am saying is that it terrifies me what happen to (some) people when the normal law and order is not working. What makes a human being turn into an animal - just because their is no longer a risk of retribution ?

Still, I would not shoot anybody for steeling a plasma TV - at least not if it was not mine...

artplumber · 09-04-2005, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by livi
..What makes a human being turn into an animal - just because their is no longer a risk of retribution ?...

Ding, Ding, Ding ... Give that man a ceegar!

ianc · 09-05-2005, 12:46 AM

RE: shooting looters and the debate over whether it's worth killing someone over a TV or a stereo.

The question of shooting looters has nothing to do with whether their lives are worth a TV or not.

In times of desperation and horror, order MUST be maintained. It is then, more than any other time, when one must have faith in people's ability to abide by the law and help each other. When there is no police presence to enforce the law, then people must be relied upon to police themselves and adhere to a certain basic decency. There is NO excuse for transcending this, apart from getting food, medical supplies, or whatever else is necessary to sustsain life.

Looting is just the start. A kind of testing of the waters, if you will. If no discipline is exercised at this point, what's to stop the looter from taking whatever else he wants: your car, your wife and daughter, etc. Transgressions in times of emergency must be dealt with swiftly and harshly. In normal times, we would try to exercise a more compassionate and lenient justice. In emergencies, there is no time for this. There is no question in my mind that a laxity in dealing with individuals of this type will only cause more serious crimes such as murder and rape to proliferate.

Do what you need to protect you and yours.

ianc

targa911S · 09-05-2005, 05:57 AM

well stated Ianc

livi · 09-05-2005, 06:16 AM

From my point of view the interesting question is not whether looters should be decisively dealt with or not. I think they should.

My question was what causes (often a large number) individuals of the human race to totally lose the normal moral boundaries and start acting like reptiles - just because there is no one to stop them.

It is terrifying to see what dark powers are lodged in some human beings and how break down of society from war or catastrophes bring it out - not in one or two, but rather many.

targa911S · 09-05-2005, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tabs
The concept of Man being Civilized is overated.....it's the Dark side that really is only kept at bay....

there ya go.

livi · 09-05-2005, 06:32 AM

I figured that much..

And in the light of that statement your gun laws really make sense. Every one has the right to defend himself. Expect evil from your fellow citizen - carry a gun.

Mule · 09-05-2005, 06:38 AM

quote:Originally posted by livi
..What makes a human being turn into an animal - just because their is no longer a risk of retribution ?...

That human already was an animal. He just needed an opportunity.

ianc · 09-05-2005, 02:48 PM

Quote:

My question was what causes (often a large number) individuals of the human race to totally lose the normal moral boundaries and start acting like reptiles - just because there is no one to stop them.

Interesting question. I think all human beings have this capacity as part of their makeup when they're born; after all, we're animals like any other species. Trite as it may sound, you need to have values instilled in you during your upbringing. You need to be shown and convinced of what's important from an early age. Some people never get this. Some people do get it and are still animals. I don't know why...

ianc

Victor · 09-05-2005, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mule
quote:Originally posted by livi
..What makes a human being turn into an animal - just because their is no longer a risk of retribution ?...

That human already was an animal. He just needed an opportunity.

Very true. How else can we explain for example the prisoner abuse by US soldiers on Iraqi prisoners?