Shootout in the Florida Corral (long)

[AFJuvat]

As if October 1st, the "Right of Self Defense" laws went on the books.

Previously in FL, you had the legal and moral obligation to retreat if confronted with a life threatening situation (carjacker, etc) If you were cornered, you had the legal right to use deadly force.

Now, there is no legal or moral obligation to retreat. The self defense law has been expanded to include your home, vehicle, or person.

Here is the link to the new laws:

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0776/titl0776.htm&StatuteYear=2005&Title=%2D%3E2005%2D%3EChapter%20776

Here is the cliffs notes version:

776.012 Use of force in defense of person.--A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.

776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.--

(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:

(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person's will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and

(b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.

(2) The presumption set forth in subsection (1) does not apply if:

(a) The person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person; or

(b) The person or persons sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is used; or

(c) The person who uses defensive force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity; or

(d) The person against whom the defensive force is used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a law enforcement officer.

(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

(4) A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter a person's dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.

(5) As used in this section, the term:

(a) "Dwelling" means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night.

(b) "Residence" means a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as an invited guest.

(c) "Vehicle" means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, which is designed to transport people or property.

And lastly:

776.08 Forcible felony.--"Forcible felony" means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.

Now, I am a republican and a gun owner. I firmly believe that individuals have the right to keep and own guns. I believe in right of self defense. However, I think the way they worded these laws makes it VERY easy to justify killing someone.

As a side note, it is perfectly legal in the state of FL to carry a loaded firearm in your car - provided it is not concealed on your person. As long as you have a clean criminal record, a concealed weapons license costs $117.

Thoughts?

AFJ

[Dantilla]

Good.

[Joeaksa]

They have the same thing more or less in Texas. If its on your property and confronted you have the right to protect yourself and your family. Believe that AZ is the same way but not worded as strong.

This is the way it should be. Eliminate the people who are trying to kill or rob you. Their friends will get the message and might even get a job for a change.

JoeA

[bryanthompson]

We can't even get concealed carry here. Something's wrong with the world.

[AFJuvat]

I agree with it in principle too. I really think the wording makes it a little too easy to shoot someone.

Here is how I'm interpreting it.

You have a houseguest. You get into an arguement. He throws a glass or a beer bottle at you. You now have the legal right to shoot.

Should prove to be interesting over the next few months anyways..

AFJ

[Joeaksa]

Here is a slight mod to the above. The Sun-Sentinel is running a survey to see how people feel about various company policy regarding carrying a weapon in their glovebox while at work.

Personally I feel that its none of the companies business. So far its running 65% for allowing a person to do as they wish as long as they are legally able to possess a firearm.


Some companies have been firing employees for having legal firearms locked in their gloveboxes in parking lots or for having hunting firearms in locked in their vehicles. Should you give up your right of self-defense or you right to have a firearm in your vehicle for lawful purposes because anti-gun company administrators have been encouraged by the Brady Campaign to ban firearms in their parking lots? Below is the POLL LINK from the very anti-gun South Florida Sun-Sentinel:

Republican lawmakers are proposing a bill that would give Floridians the right to keep guns locked in their vehicles while they're at work -- a practice now banned by many companies. Your opinion?

Click here:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sfl-100305poll,0,7350068,post.poll

Or copy and paste this url

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sfl-100305poll,0,7350068,post.poll

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by bryanthompson
We can't even get concealed carry here. Something's wrong with the world.

Ya...liberals.

[FrayAdjacent911]

It'll sure make the criminals think twice... now potential victims don't have to simply run and cry for help if they're armed, like they previously had to. Now they can draw down and PROTECT themselves.

The anti gunners are going to cry about blood in the streets, shootings over fender benders, and 'Shootout at the OK Corral' type events happening...

... just like when concealed carry laws were passed...

... and none of their fears materialized...

Yet they will still cry it, they will cry it loudly and repeatedly.

[URY914]

I just shot the guy across the street from me this morning.

He was going for my newspaper and he had a cup of hot coffee in his hand.

Welcome to the Sunshine State.

[Joeaksa]

Up to 84% now. Guess the public are tired of the crooks being the only ones armed!

JoeA

[targa911S]

Originally posted by URY914
I just shot the guy across the street from me this morning.

He was going for my newspaper and he had a cup of hot coffee in his hand.

Welcome to the Sunshine State.

I set up a machine gun turret on my roof yesterday. So far I got the lawn guy across the street, the neighborhood skate boarders and a few stray dogs.

[TerryBPP]

Some people need kill'n.

[widebody911]

Anything that reduces the population of Florida is fine by me.

[TheMentat]

Originally posted by AFJuvat

You have a houseguest. You get into an arguement. He throws a glass or a beer bottle at you. You now have the legal right to shoot.
AFJ

It'd sure suck if during the subsequent investigation they found some illegal .mp3s on your computer, thus nullifuying 776.013.

[TerryBPP]

Originally posted by widebody911
Anything that reduces the population of Florida is fine by me.

I would normally take offense to this but I know tonight you will be buying that womans dinner tonight. So I'll revel in that.

[targa911S]

terry.. shoot at anyone today? I been sittin' out on I 75 just pickin' em off!

[TerryBPP]

Nah, I had to work today. But this weekend, its open season. I'm thinking of hunting for people that drive Kia's and Daewo's.

[URY914]

I just shot a dog that barked at me.

And on the way to work this morning a lady in an SUV cut me off while she was talking on the phone.
Let's just say she won't be doing THAT anymore....

Paul

[legion]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
Here is a slight mod to the above. The Sun-Sentinel is running a survey to see how people feel about various company policy regarding carrying a weapon in their glovebox while at work.
[/FONT]

They'd have to fire a lot of people around here during deer season.

Heck, my neighbor across the street is allowed to hunt at work.

[Jeff Higgins]

Does there really even have to be a law about this? Talk about basic human rights - defending one's self, loved ones, and property is very near the top of that list.