If you are unlucky enough to be sent to the middle east, you will have my sympathy and 'support,' whatever that is.

The invasion of Afghanistan was necessary. No question. The invasion of Iraq has not 'protected our freedoms' any more than the Vietnam war did for my generation. Sorry, but that's the way it is.

What's your Patriot Index up to?

Just curious, what are you doing over in the middle east that allows him to sit in his home? How would he not be able to sit in his cozy home if you weren't going to the middle east?

This thread started as an interesting and fairly ernest discussion...watching the de-evolution of the discourse into the same tired crap has been dissappointing at best.

Wow...I really don't know how to respond here. I knew that many on this board were pretty far to the left, but this really is amazing. To think that not only does Tech actually think that the founding fathers were terrorists on the level of al Qaeda but that others on the board would come to his defense and agree with him is flabbergasting. Not to mention Tech summing up my service to our country by calling me a crybaby. Unfortunately experiences like these are what make it difficult for many of us to take the left seriously at all.

Is that another trick question.:D

Here is a question: Why are we using Depleted Uranium in our ammo when eveyone knows it causes birth defects and miscarriages?

It's not terrorism, so what is it called?

Naplam

Cluster Bombs

Land Mines

Stuff I don't want to know about.

Kach,

Its called war. You have never been in it, I can tell this for sure. When someone is trying to kill you it gets real nasty in a hurry.

We did not develope much of what you mention but we sure figured how to make it work better. The other side has used them on us in most cases and I did not hear you rant and rave about that!

JoeA

PS, I leave for the middle east in 4 days.

I'm seriously interested in the detail/history aspect of this.

Do share.

Did you see this link yet?

http://www.rivervet.com/

Up your alley.

Look on the internet if you are really interested, my time is too valuable to spend trying to teach you what you should know already.

Joe A

Depleted uranium makes ammunition more lethal against armor, because it is denser than the material of the armor. There is a good military reason for using it.

I suspect the health effects to civilians is extremely minor, relative to all the other causes of civilian death during war. I once estimated that something like 25,000-40,000 civilians have died during the Iraq war (can't find the thread where we were discussing this, but it was roughly that). I'd be surprised if 5 of these were due to depleted uranium ammunition. If anyone has hard data, I'd be interested.

More like a million deaths over a ten year peroid, although no one, not even the UN is willing to fund a proper study of the problem.

Hey, it's just environmental pollution, right?

Well, that spontaneous outbreak of good will and civility was short lived.

Now we back to ripping the ***** out of one another :(

Where is the love (3x)
Where is the, where is the love (3x)
I don’t know a single reason
Tell me why you turned your back on me
I can’t find a sign of treason
My love is build on honesty
Without you, I’m slowly dying
I’ve got a broken heart in me
I found out, the night ain’t lying
I’m half the man I used to be
You are the sunshine in the morning
And my comfort in the night
But then you left without a warning
In ecstasy you run and hide
Where is the love
Baby don’t keep me, don’t keep me hanging on
Where is the love
I feel like dying
I’m crying since you’ve been gone
Where is the love
Where is the, where is the love
Lonely days with my desire
You’re the centerfold of all my dreams
You’re the flame to light my fire
Higher than a fire’s ever been
You are the sunshine in the morning
And my comfort in the night
Where is the love
Baby don’t keep me, don’t keep me hanging on
Where is the love
I feel like dying
I’m crying since you’ve been gone
Where is the love
Baby don’t keep me, don’t keep me hanging on
Where is the love
Where is the, where is the love (2x)
Where is the love
Where is the, where is the love (3x)
Where is the love
Don’t keep me, don’t keep me hanging on
Where is the love
I feel like dying, I’m crying since you’ve been gone
Where is the love
Baby don’t keep me, don’t keep me hanging on
Where is the love
I feel like dying
I’m crying since you’ve been gone
Where is the love
Where is the, where is the love
Where is the, where is the love

Jeez, last time I checked this thread everybody was singing kumbaya. I can't leave you folks alone for a minute, can I? :D

BTW: Can somebody change the spelling to CALIGULA?

Sorry, I'm just tired of two people on OT who seem to be having a pity party.

You know, I might have forgotten a few things in the 35 years since I was in the Army, but I sure don't remember my friends wallowing in self pity. And a lot of them were not there voluntarily.

However you serve, whether by ladling soup to the homeless or extinguishing fires or shooting up someone else's country, you'd better not be doing it for the thanks.

And exactly where in my posts did I EVER ask for your or anyone else's thanks?? I serve for my own personal reasons, certainly not to try and get "thanks" from an anonymous BBS.

It certainly does chafe, though, when you equate the people who are murdering innocents and killing my fellow servicemen to George Washington and Ben Franklin. And please, spare me the usual line about civilian casualties in war. There is a big difference (and as a self proclaimed former Army man you know this) between accidental or collateral civilian casualties and DELIBERATELY targeting civilians. By saying there is no difference, you are essentially calling myself and anyone in the service terrorists.

If you want to bash the war, fine. Hate the government or Bush? Great. Post away. I'll be happy to have a sane and friendly discussion about whatever you like. But when you equate al Qaeda to the founders of this nation and call myself and every other serviceman who has served over in the sandbox a terrorist, I get a bit riled.

Hey, at least Caligula was getting laid.

Just saw that movie again not too long ago, kinda tame by todays standards. Although that head chopping thing was pretty cool

Very well said!

The object of war is to kill your enemy...so who the fk cares if a Uranium bullet kills em...you want to inflict as much harm on your enemy so that he wants to quit. Get the idea, your not out to hug your enemy to death.

Who the fk says war has got to be nice. It is a dirty business.

Marsh Robert E Lee said, "It is a good thing war is so horrible, or one could get fond of it."