Pelican OT, Welfare for high earners?

[bryanthompson]

The amount of time isn't as important as what I get done in a day... so as long as I make deadlines and get crap done, it doesn't matter whether it takes 5 hours or 13.

For a while, i was locally redirecting PPOT to localhost, to remind me to focus!

[turbo6bar]

Originally posted by procon
Suddenly, everyone's a worker bee?

Not everyone here works for a living, ya know.

[Oh Haha]

I check Pelican in the am, around noon, and then when I get home.
I don't have deadlines most weeks and I am salary based. I spend maybe an hour a day here on company time. Of course, as the manager I am kinda always on company time. Gotta love the 3 am calls for a broken coffee vendor!

[turbo6bar]

Well, I'm self-employed, so if the job doesn't get done on time, I kick myself in the rear with my size 10 Red Wings.

Hitting Pelican is like taking a smoke break. If folks shall not have breaks or time away from work, so be it. As far as the analogy is concerned, I think there would be more moaning if we eliminated welfare than if PP was banned from all work computers. Actually, I'd be moaning the most if PP was banned, because I'd have no one to talk to.

[bryanthompson]

Originally posted by procon
As an employer, I pay based on the hour & pay well.
If you're ******* off during the hours I'm paying you to work, you're fired.

I work way better when there's a goal instead of a time clock. If there's something to be done, I don't care how long it takes, and I focus on it. I had the option of being hourly, but I chose salary.

How many employees do you have that are willing to come in on weekends, stay overnight, sleeping under their computer desk, to finish a project? Are you really going to fire them for wasting 30 minutes a day on a website? hell, I don't even take lunch break... throw food in the microwave, back to work, *ding* eat at desk, finish working.

[Jeff Higgins]

Where I work, the employee/employer relationship generally very much favors the employer. The missed lunches, staying over an hour here two hours there, using private vehicles on company business without compensation, coming in early to catch a meeting because that's the only time everyone is available at the same time, etc.

We have had managers that watched us like a hawk and tried to nail us for any "non-company business" attended to on company time. In each and every case we became extremely attentive and punctual, and played by the formal rules. In other words, the give and take, the leeway the company enjoyed with us, dissapeared. It very quickly became apparent that far less got done when the company had to put up with its own rules, particularly regarding the time we spent there.

It is not uncommon for folks that are paid to work with their heads rather than their backs to just plain hit a mental block. I guess I could just sit there with that deer in the headlights look and technically not be "screwing off". Or I can shift mental gears and do something distracting and engaging on a far different level, like hanging out with you clowns in OT. That often clears the logjam. Or, I wind up here while I'm waiting for another application to run. I could sit and stare at the hourglass for a few minutes, or I can take a peek here. The results still come at the same pace either way. Others have said it already - look for results, not minute-by-minute accountability of "company time".

[bryanthompson]

Are you serious? You don't see the difference between me, a salaried employee working an AVERAGE of ten hours a day (minus 30 minutes makes it 9:30) and a worker being paid hourly, wasting time ON THE CLOCK?

There's a fundamental difference here you're not seeing.

[bryanthompson]

Oh, and I blame the libs for us even having to be here. They are causing us to waste time by forcing us to correct their half-baked ideas & theories.

[dtw]

Originally posted by procon
30 mins a day x 20 work days in a month = 600 mins.
600 mins. = 10 hrs a month.
10 hrs a month = a weeks paid vacation to pelican land every 4 months.
However, you seem to have a major problem with welfare recipient's.
As I see it, you simply suckle from a different teat.

[Devilsadvocate]Replace "Pelican" with "Smoke Break" and your math still works. Smoke breaks have been going on for a lot longer than the internet's been around. Are they also suckling at the teat?

What about individuals with IBS who spend 10-30 extra minutes a day uncontrollably *****ting on company time? Should they be drawn and quartered? [/Devilsadvocate]

[WolfeMacleod]

Ahh, everything I do is on company time.
I eat on company time.
I shower on company time.
I sleep on company time.
I watch TV on company time
I get laid on company time.
And I'm writing this on company time.

It's good to be my own boss

[RANDY P]

I'm an independent contractor, and also considered the office manager - and during the day (every damn day) I

1) Show up later than I declare the night before

2) Surf Pelican and buy stuff

3) check out DVD's on my computer

4) Take long lunches, naps, go on "business appointments" with friends

5) and go home early when I feel like it.

Heck, I can (and have been known occasionally) to show up "enhanced" from lunch or the night before, usually with my other co-workers - who also have the same habits listed above.

Why I get away with it? I'm commission based, and I have no salary, no wages guaranteed -I don't produce I don't eat.

It also means that I'm on the clock all the time, sometimes dealing with clients in the middle of the night, or whenever business has to happen. It's not uncommon to have to go on last minute unplanned trips / go home the next day/ stay late / show up early / don't go to bed / to deal with a problem that can't be dealt with on the phone. Although I have the freedom, that also includes the freedom to fail if I don't watch it. No one but myself creates and is responsible for my business or welfare. If you're really worried about productivity being lost thanks to Pelican or whatever, start paying everyone commission or by piece.

With that said, it's a bigger waste time mis-allocating efforts when it's not needed. Also, being self - employed is the ultimate statement against welfare.

I'm proud of the fact no one pays me wages...

rjp

[RANDY P]

Originally posted by Jeff Higgins
Others have said it already - look for results, not minute-by-minute accountability of "company time".

Couldn't be put any better.

About the only thing grown men and women hate more than being overloaded at work is to be handcuffed to their tasks. When that happens, expect things to go wrong on purpose and your turnover rate to soar. Although, technically as an employer you are correct in the fact people need to be accountable for their time, you're also punishing them for their proficiency with this approach. They'll repay you with sloppy work and a bad attitude.

Crack the whip and things will slow down even further. Give a minute to breathe and be themselves and they'll follow you to Hell if you ask 'em.

rjp

[fintstone]

As a government employee, I cannot view PP from work. My internet is constantly monitored and non-work sites are blocked.

[WolfeMacleod]

Originally posted by RANDY P
It also means that I'm on the clock all the time, sometimes dealing with clients in the middle of the night, or whenever business has to happen.

Same here. It's 1am and I just received an order via email froma guy in France.
It does have it's drawbacks though. Yesterday I was awoken very early in the morning by a phone call. From a guy in Switzerland.
I've come to despise time zones.

[Drago]

Remind me to never work for this procon character.

[bivenator]

Originally posted by procon
30 mins a day x 20 work days in a month = 600 mins.
600 mins. = 10 hrs a month.
10 hrs a month = a weeks paid vacation to pelican land every 4 months.
However, you seem to have a major problem with welfare recipient's.
As I see it, you simply suckle from a different teat.

If it were that easy to work, why don't welfare recipients get jobs. Then they could enjoy 10 hrs a month of goofing off instead of the grueling 24 hrs per day schedule that they must currently adhere to.

[David]

Since I'm salaried I don't get overtime. Whether I work 40 hours or 70 hours, I get paid the same. The guys on the shop floor get paid for every hour and for breaks. Time and half overtime and double time on Sunday and holidays. Some of the machinists are bringing home over $100K a year, I'm not. So I don't see a problem with me checking out Pelican or whatever when I'm on the phone, just taking a break, or sitting there on a weekend making sure the job's getting done. On the other hand, it has become somewhat of an addiction that needs to be curbed.

I heard one of our directors got pissed today when he couldn't check out new TV's online.

[5axis]

Originally posted by 125shifter
Some of the machinists are bringing home over $100K a year,

The good old days, I doubt I will see them again.

No PP access for me anyway, I am paid to cut steel not goof around reading about Porsches.

[austin552]

They shut us off of the web. Now all we have is an old pinball game. I have to find a better job!

[fintstone]

Back to the original question. If Pelican time was paid for with tax dollars...maybe yes..it is welfare

If the time is used on the sly against company rules...it is theft

If it is allowed by the employer...it is a employee benefit...and part of the employee's compensation package.