Abortion where do you draw the line?

pbs911 · pbs911's Garage

The abortion topic is one blurred between religious beliefs, moral beliefs and Constitutional interpretation. The issue nonetheless seems to be firmly in two - pro & con. it is a decisive facts in many voters as to which candiate they will support. Some site a dangeous medical procedure as the justification for requiring parental notification. For others the point of conception governs.

Does the fact abortion may be legally performed in three different ways effect your opinion?

1. The RU486 pill. Effective up to 5 days after fertilization and takes place in the privacy of a woman's home.

2. A dose of mifepristone in tablet form or an injection of methotrexate. Effective after implantation and up to 14 weeks after fertilization. Takes place in the privacy of a woman's home.

3. Vacuum Aspiration. May be perfromed at any time after implantation up to the end of the 2nd trimester. Minor surgery performed in clinical setting.

Now, CA Prop 73 failed to distinguish abortion as either medical or surgical. Each of these 3 procedures are an abortion. Does the means make a difference? Does the means of abortion effect the perception of what is right or wrong? And what about a minor? Do the perceptions of parental notification apply equally to all 3 procedures or just one where minor surgery is involved?

Isabo · 11-11-2005, 08:36 AM

I do not like abortion.
The thought of it makes me ill.
I do however, live in the real world.
If you don't have legal abortion you have backstreet abortions.
That is the real choice in the abortion issue.

CRH911S · 11-11-2005, 09:08 AM

Right or wrong isn't a factor in determining the means which is up to the individual.
Personally, I feel it is wrong for government and the military to subsidize childbirth.

HardDrive · 11-11-2005, 09:12 AM

My views on the abortion can be summed up this way: Its none of my god damn business.

Jims5543 · 11-11-2005, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HardDrive
My views on the abortion can be summed up this way: Its none of my god damn business.

Agreed. When asked my stance I state "Pro-Choice, Anti-Abortion" That is the truth. I would not opt for abortion but who am I to tell others what to do? Its none of my business. I have my moral beliefs and they are mine no one esles.

BlueSkyJaunte · 11-11-2005, 09:38 AM

Wow, I agree with all of you guys for once.

M.D. Holloway · 11-11-2005, 09:41 AM

Very cut and dry for me. Abortion = murder. Plain and simple.

Keith Perry · 11-11-2005, 09:44 AM

You ought to be able to abort 'em up to age 18 unless they're paying rent or have moved out. I forget who said it first.

BlueSkyJaunte · 11-11-2005, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by R. A. Heinlein
"Most young males should be kept in a barrel and fed through the bung hole until the age of 18, and then a decision is made on whether to let them out - or drive in the bung."

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

I think about the 27th to 33rd trimester is where it should stop (8-10 years old). Cause after that, they usually can fight back, call 911, etc.

Back 200 years ago, no one really cared, with the infant mortality rate so high. And usually, they were people of "common" ancestry, so they weren't even worth talking about.

Then "they" made it a crime to kill your kids (and look where that slippery slope has led!), and people resorted to other methods.

"Exposure". You didn't really kill them, you just sort of "neglected" them by leaving them outside in the elements.

I do find it ironic, that planned parenthood, like so many other highly minded civic oranizations of today, started out as a raciast organization, advocating sterization of the lesser races (I think including Irish).

I'm like Isaboo. I do not like abortion. The idea is truely sickening. I would prefer to prevent the pregancy in the first place. But better to have the proceedure available than back alley.

Dan Mc Intyre · Dan Mc Intyre's Garage

It should be an individual decisioin. If you disagree, don't have it done.

Dan

amity914 · 11-11-2005, 05:26 PM

I really don't like the idea, and I would never get one myself, but I am not nieve either, and if one chooses to, I believe it should be taken care of within the first 6 weeks of preg. I really hate the idea of 2nd trimester or partial birth abort. It makes me sad.

Hiedi

Joeaksa · 11-11-2005, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HardDrive
My views on the abortion can be summed up this way: Its none of my god damn business.

When I grow a vagina then it will become my business, otherwise the statement above pretty much sums it up. Personally I do not like it but its going to happen and if thats the case then I would much prefer it done safely than in some backroom illegally.

I grew up in the days where it was illegal. Girls went to Mexico or had some butcher preform the operations illegally. Many of them ended up infertile due to a botched operation and some died.

Its better to have a health professional available to preform an operation if needed. Otherwise we need to keep our noses out of it.

Joe A

Brother · 11-11-2005, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan Mc Intyre
It should be an individual decisioin. If you disagree, don't have it done.

Dan

For how many issues would you apply that argument?

This is a cut and dry issue. We all think murder is wrong. Therefore we are really arguing on when the fetus is alive. Lubemaster and I would probably think that it is pretty early on, but others think it is sometime later. Think about where you would draw the line. Would you consider it "none of your damn business if a woman aborted her child on her due date? How about 1 day prior. 2 days?

I think nationally this is now well before the third trimester. However, some will push for never, and others will push for anytime.

campbellcj · 11-11-2005, 10:07 PM

What I find profoundly disgusting is that there seems to be little to no effort placed in preventing 'unwanted' pregnancies, or no penalty on those who create them, oftentimes over and over again. Perhaps if there were serious repurcussions after the first or second 'accident', this would no longer be such a dominant and controversial issue in our society after a few years to reach an equilibrium point of personal responsibility and accountability.

Brother · 11-11-2005, 10:11 PM

What are you proposing as the crime and the corresponding punishment?

Victor · 11-12-2005, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joeaksa
When I grow a vagina then it will become my business, otherwise the statement above pretty much sums it up. Personally I do not like it but its going to happen and if thats the case then I would much prefer it done safely than in some backroom illegally.

I grew up in the days where it was illegal. Girls went to Mexico or had some butcher preform the operations illegally. Many of them ended up infertile due to a botched operation and some died.

Its better to have a health professional available to preform an operation if needed. Otherwise we need to keep our noses out of it.

Joe A

Joe, I could not have hoped to say it better myself. If you don't mind, I'll be quoting the "when I grow a vagina then it will become my business" line. Good stuff.

Vipergrün · 11-12-2005, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Victor
Joe, I could not have hoped to say it better myself. If you don't mind, I'll be quoting the "when I grow a vagina then it will become my business" line. Good stuff.

Ok, so you knock up your girlfriend, you want to keep it, she does not. Now what? You have NO say. However, if she want's it and you don't, guess who is stuck with child support. Either way you are screwed. As long as we keep sticking it in them, it IS our business.

Joeaksa · 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bb80sc
Ok, so you knock up your girlfriend, you want to keep it, she does not. Now what? You have NO say. However, if she want's it and you don't, guess who is stuck with child support. Either way you are screwed. As long as we keep sticking it in them, it IS our business.

You are right. If a man is not prepared to support and pay for a child for 18 years, then its best not to "stick it in them" as you say. (very romantic I might add)

Sex is a lot of fun but if the woman gets pregnant its a whole different world. The guy can just walk away, and in many cases does. The woman does not have that choice.

When someone figure's out a way for the man to get pregnant (I have tried for years, letting the ladies on top all they wanted but alas, no luck so far. At least research has been fun!) or share it with her, then you can have a full voting right in the situation. Personally I feel that until that time no man has the right to force a woman to abort their child. If a man is not ready to work under these rules then do not have sex with her.

As you comment on, if the man wants to keep the child and the lady does not, it would become a very interesting situation. I have two male friends who raised their kids after the wife/mother "got a wild hair" and left the marriage and family. I have a lot of respect for these guys and they are few and far inbetween.

Victor, this is scary. We actually agree on something??!! There is a God!

Now get a 911 and come back in the fold again!

Joe A

Vipergrün · 11-12-2005, 06:09 AM

Should a man be able to force a woman to keep a child? Afterall, it is 1/2 his.

Another thing I find odd is that if a woman wants the baby, some dood punches her in the gut early on and the fetus dies, the guy could be charged with murder. However, the lady could have decided to dispose of the pregnancy the day before an it would have been no big deal.

What a whacked society we live in....