Some questions about 996s

dd74 · 12-11-2005, 11:20 AM

At first I wasn't the biggest fan of the 996, but have by late grown to like these cars. I particularly enjoy the raspy exhaust tone, and I think their shape is pretty easy on the eyes.

However, I have been told that the 996's durability is so suspect, that new car dealers DO NOT even take 996s in on trade ins. Is this true? If so, it definitely says something about reliability and trust in the product.

Lastly, what will these cars cost in 5 to 10 years? Will they go for substantially less money? Will they be as reliable at ten to fifteen years of age as an SC or late Carrera?

If I were to get one of these cars, all I perceive doing to it is some lightening of its weight, and maybe change the shocks. Otherwise it would remain stock.

Any suggestions or ideas? Thanks.

s_wilwerding · s_wilwerding's Garage

There was a recent article in Excellence about the reliability of 996s/Boxsters (their engines are very similar). Essentially, the article stated that the 996 engine is very durable, but they do have a few problems. Many suffer from an RMS (rear main seal leak). This is not a big deal, and the updated seal that Porsche now uses should fix the problem for good. Other than that, there is no common malady. A few have had engine failures (a very few), but I don't think there's a 911 model since the beginning that that isn't true of.

All 911s have their quirks - the 996 is no different. However, if you find a used one that had been well taken care of, you should be fine. As a sidebar, my 1998 Boxster has had not had one issue since new, and it uses essentially the same engine as the 996. 996s and Boxsters are more reliable than people think.

livi · 12-11-2005, 11:40 AM

Like you, they really have grown on me. The design just keeps looking better and better in my eyes.

I know there have been some issues, but I think they are generally considered a true Porsche heritage - even in the reliability / durability department.

My colleague bought one new '99. He has been driving it daily ever since. Extremely happy about it and never any problems. Just one testimony of course.

Matt Holcomb · Matt Holcomb's Garage

David,

FWIW, I've driven a couple of 996s, a 6-speed and a Tiptronic S, and while they both went like stink and stopped like an F-14 on an aircraft carrier, each time I came away feeling unmoved.

The men -- and women -- at Weissach are very clever people: they succeeded in making the 996 feel like an average front-engined coupe -- at Rodeo Drive speeds.

At Willow Springs speeds, well, I've heard that the 996 will bite you like an air-cooled 911 will if you fail to observe the slow-in, fast-out rule that applies to all rear-engined cars.

As for the reliability question, I think Porsche had to cut some corners, but, generally speaking, I think they're as robust as they need to be. Are they as robust as their air-cooled forerunners?

Only time will tell.

HardDrive · 12-11-2005, 04:24 PM

Those head lights....UGH. I could never get past them...

gprsh924 · 12-11-2005, 05:30 PM

I find the look of the 996's very boring in plain in the bone stock setup. if you add the aero kit to it (and possibly the rear spoiler) i think it looks drop dead gorgeous

cantdrv55 · 12-11-2005, 09:32 PM

The RMS issue is a VERY BIG deal. Just check out the Boxster board PPBB.com. It's discussed there often. Also, I think it's shown up on 997s as well. Can't remember where I read it. Doesn't mean that 996s are bad though. The RMS thing doesn't affect all Boxsters and 996s.

s_wilwerding · s_wilwerding's Garage

It's a big deal in the sense that a lot of cars have the issue, but it's not a big deal in that it can be easily fixed. There were a few porous case issues, which was different than the RMS issue, but most of the porous cases have been taken care of. I haven't heard of anyone with a porous case for quite awhile.

kach22i · kach22i's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by HardDrive
Those head lights....UGH. I could never get past them...

http://www.***********.com/model/986catalog/986.33.html

There are a couple of companies which make band-aids for just that issue.

[IMG]http://www.***********.com/model/986catalog/pp-401-980.jpg[/IMG]

onewhippedpuppy · 12-12-2005, 12:52 PM

With the 997 out, 996 prices will probably drop even faster. As it is, you can pick one up for nice 993 money. That would be my only reservation, it's a lot of car for the money, if it's to keep I'd go for it.

I'll be interested to see what happens when 996s and Boxsters start needing rebuilds, with Porsche only selling complete rebuilt engines and not internal parts for rebuilds. Will they become disposable cars?

Halm · 12-12-2005, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by onewhippedpuppy
I'll be interested to see what happens when 996s and Boxsters start needing rebuilds, with Porsche only selling complete rebuilt engines and not internal parts for rebuilds. Will they become disposable cars?

Matt, I had not head that internal parts were unavailable. In that case, any guess what a complete rebuilt motor is going for?

kaisen · 12-12-2005, 01:32 PM

I keep hearing that Corvettes are piles of GM steaming dung. Porsche guys keeping justifying very expensive problems as "Porsche Heritage" while the lesser things in GM cars make them unworthy. Nice logic.

E

onewhippedpuppy · 12-12-2005, 01:32 PM

No clue, I just recall reading that in Excellence. I don't remember them being more than a typical rebuild though, but it will ruin anybody who wants to DIY.

onewhippedpuppy · 12-12-2005, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kaisen
I keep hearing that Corvettes are piles of GM steaming dung. Porsche guys keeping justifying very expensive problems as "Porsche Heritage" while the lesser things in GM cars make them unworthy. Nice logic.

E

Wow, where'd that come from? Porsche has acknowledged the RMS problem, and is now repairing it under warranty with an improved part. I have never called Corvettes crap, even in the recent GM threads, I have made comments regarding their build quality and the driving experience in comparison to the 997. All of these comments have been gleaned from magazines such as C&D and reported as such, as unfortunately I'm not shopping for a $50k car right now.

Halm · 12-12-2005, 01:57 PM

Wow! At sub $10k for a rebuilt motor with a factory warranty, the 996 has suddenly become very appealing.

Halm · 12-12-2005, 03:09 PM

Sub $10 even if it is with an exchange is a great deal. This really has me thinking.

s_wilwerding · s_wilwerding's Garage

Yeah, FVD in Florida sells create engines for right around $6K - $7K. One of these days, I'm going to buy a 3.4 996 engine and stick it in my Boxster.

I can guarantee a rebuild of a 993 engine is a lot more than $6K.

kaisen · 12-12-2005, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Halm
Wow! At sub $10k for a rebuilt motor with a factory warranty, the 996 has suddenly become very appealing.

Halm, I'm not sure if you are serious or sarcastic.

Anyway, the 996's have lots of engine and transaxle issues. Spending $30,000 for the car (great deal!), then $10,000 for the motor, then crossing your fingers on the transaxle doesn't sound like a great deal anymore.

The engines have suffered catastrophic events. It's not like 911/964/993 engines that 'merely' leak all their fluids, or lift a head, or eat valve guides ..... the engines still run. The 996 motors eat themselves, sometimes violently. Intermediate shafts. Timing chains. Bore liners. Main bearings. Flywheels. Crunching sounds are good for cereals, not engines.

The transmissions are brittle and esoteric. Clutches are 6-10K miles or until the main seal spews oil on it. 1st and 5th synchros, pinion bearings, etc. are NOT available through Porsche. You must buy a complete transaxle, exchange.

So we can all jump for joy that Porsche has been 'kind' to price the factory engine and trans at 'reasonable' prices. But they're still expensive, and you may end up spending 30-40% of the car's value.

Buy a 996 or 986 (Boxster) that just had one or the other (or both) done under warranty. The owner should be ready to bail by then.

E

onewhippedpuppy · 12-12-2005, 04:18 PM

I think that may be way overstating the problem. I'm not going to argue, because I don't have the facts right in front of me, I would advise anybody interested to find Excellence from two months ago, B.A. had an excellent article on the 996 engine, and how it was overall on a par with Porsche's excellent lineage of flat 6s.

kaisen · 12-12-2005, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by onewhippedpuppy
I think that may be way overstating the problem....

Maybe, just like the '95 540i you own. Notorious for bad engines. Has yours had one yet in its lifetime? Do you know anyone that has a 94/95 that has? Well known, well documented. So are the problems with the 996/986 motors, particularly 98/99 which happen to be the 'cheaper' 996's in question.

Buy a great warranty and life is good. Well, good when the car isn't in the shop where you aren't enjoying it.

E