Tithing

[IROC]

I'd like to know more about the actual scriptural requirements surrounding tithing. Is it required of today's Christians? Was it only intended for those who lived under Mosaic Law? What's the interpretation between giving to "god" and giving to the "church"? Is it the same thing?

My in-laws are attending a church that *strongly* suggests that they give 10% of their gross income to the church (plus they are pressured to give an "offering" which is anything above the 10% tithe). They are happily complying as they feel that god is blessing their lives as a result.

The problem I see with this is that they are in no financial position to do this. My wife is concerned because her parents have had troubles before (bankruptcy) and they are headed that way again at an alarming rate (the interest only mortgage thread is very applicable needless to say).

Thanks,

Mike

[VaSteve]

"The God I believe in isn't short of cash, mister" - Bono

[Jeff Higgins]

Tithing is no more than a strong-arm tactic employed by pseudo-Christian denominations in an effort to support themselves or, more importantly to them, to increase their stature. Look for the churches with the biggest, fanciest buildings. They are typically the ones that tithe. If tithing is a requirement, or even strongly encouraged, it is a clear sign that there is something amiss. Scripture does not require it; rather it discourages any form of forced giving. It isn't really "giving" anymore then, is it? It is an axiom as well that tithing churches tend to spend on themselves first, with any excess going to help the needy or whatever. Kind of backwards from what Christ would like to see.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I tithe generously to my local "church" - the one with the big plasma screens and the hot blondes that keep bringing me frosty mugs full of my favorite beverage.

http://www.beerchurch.com

[adrian jaye]

Under the Law of Moses tithing was mandatory.

Churches use the Law of Moses to justify their request for tithes.

On the other hand, a donation is a free will gift.

An individual feels no condemnation in donating whatever he wants to give from his heart. It must be understood that soul salvation is not predicated on giving one dime to anybody.

Tithing is mandatory in most churches of Christendom and taught in a way that causes condemnation if the parishioner doesn't or cannot give. In fact, for members of the so-called church to be in good standing, they must tithe or be removed from the church rolls. Ministers play various members against each other by boasting on those that are able to give large tithes. The ministers and the congregation look upon these members in high esteem for their tithe. Those unable to give large donations may be shunned by the pastor and other good standing members. Religious leaders use this form of mind control, psychology, and peer pressure on church-goers to manipulate both the giver and the size of the tithe.

The manipulation that religious leaders use to get large tithes places an extra dose of condemnation on the congregation.

[RallyJon]

Having only attended big, old churches since I was a kid (um, when I go, that is) I assumed that was the point of a church--to be old and impressive. You're supposed to walk in, look up and think, whoa, this is where God lives, or at least hangs out sometimes.

Recently we joined the local church and it's totally different. Imagine if Toll Brothers built a church. It's cheap and modern and it has a mortgage! Where is the towering stained glass? Where is the mosaic ceiling? The ancient gothic pews? The massive stone walls? But the worst thing is that the entire institution seems to be designed to extract money from you. They pass the basket not just once, but several times per service ("Please dig deep for the capital improvement fund!") I suspect that the priest sometimes stands at the entrance to the parking lot with a squeegee and bucket cleaning windshields for quarters.

They sent us a friggin' coupon book for weekly giving. Every church newsletter is focused on donations.

That's not how it's supposed to be. The God I believe in isn't short of cash either.

[indigowhale]

Tithing was for old testament Israel and is not an ordinance for the Christian church. Free will giving is taught in the new testament. However, this does not pay off as well for some pastors, so they mix a little "curse" fear and require the tithe from their sheep. Christians that have no idea of the Old vs. New Covennant fall prey to the tithing teaching. There is always some promise of reward assosiated with the call for tithing--and offerings.

Ask your relatives about the pastor's lifestyle as compared to theirs, they will probably tell you that he "deserves it". He probably has no money problems like they. The new testament says you are to give out of what you have not of what you don't have, whether it be 30% or 3%.

This guy has some of the best insight on this and debunks these "profits":

http://www.realanswers.net/realanswersaudio.html

Have your relatives listen to this audio on the Internet and his nationwide call in program. Many call asking about the tithe that is being required from them.

[thrown_hammer]

The word tenth is derived from the word tithe. So finding tenth and tithe in the same sentence in the Bible would be difficult although they do coexist in some scriptures. The Bible mostly mentions tithes in relation to grain and crops. I think the amount you give should be a personal descision based on your relationship with God. If you give a penny or half your income it is between you and God.

[Superman]

This is one of the many reasons why I remain Catholic. I have heard folks say that Catholics are given a guilt trip. I don't see that....AT ALL. Particularly compared to the "protestant" churches which see considerably more focused on money and clothes. I have gone to Mass in cutoffs with empty pockets many times.

[Nathans_Dad]

Wow, nice Christian bashing thread you have going here. Dog pile!!

[RallyJon]

Just the greedy ones who view religion as a business.

[dhoward]

When God opens a Paypal account, I'll send him some money.
Supe, you're not looking very closely...

[IROC]

Originally posted by Nathans_Dad
Wow, nice Christian bashing thread you have going here. Dog pile!!

Even in light of my personal beliefs, this thread was never intended (by me, anyway) to be "bashing" in nature. I simply wanted to understand better (from Christians) what the real nature of tithing was supposed to be. In reality, I haven't really seen anything I would interpret as bashing.

Anyway, thanks for the responses. I feel that my in-laws are being preyed upon to a great extent. They are very pious and feel that they *must* tithe to be good Christians. I just cringe at the financial burden it is placing on them.

Mike

[dhoward]

Jesus saves.
Moses invests...

[RallyJon]

I feel that my in-laws are being preyed upon to a great extent. They are very pious and feel that they *must* tithe to be good Christians. I just cringe at the financial burden it is placing on them.

Aren't there laws specifically designed to protect senior citizens from financial shenanigans? I recall years ago my grandmother was talked into "investing" in some ridiculous high-fee scheme by some sleazy stockbroker and we got her money back.

Then again, if they're doing it willingly, you probably need to have them declared incompetent first. I hear lots of old people resent that.

[thrown_hammer]

Mike,
I understand what you are saying. If someone is threatening your in-laws if they don’t “pay up” then they are misguided I think. Tithing is important but on the flip-side you can’t buy your way into Heaven. We give to our Church but not 10%. I give what I am comfortable giving. Like I said it is between God and myself.

[Jeff Higgins]

I don't see this as Christian bashing at all. Just some insight from those of us that call ourselves Christians. The common theme emerging here is that tithing is suspect at best. Churches that demand it are best avoided. There are plenty of good Christian churches that understand tithing and its role as an Old Testament law; one that was replaced by New Testament Gospel. This distinction is so clear that even the Catholic church gets this one right.

[Nathans_Dad]

Well, at the risk of continuing this Christian bashing thread, I will respond.

I think tithing IS Biblically supported. I am not sure exactly which churches you have been attending that DEMAND a tithe. My church (United Methodist, although denomination doesn't really matter to me) has an offering every Sunday and does preach that tithing is Biblical. At no time, however, have they DEMANDED that I tithe. Nor have they ever DEMANDED 10% of my income, whether it be gross or net income.

Tithing is how the Christian supports his church. Through tithing and other donations, your pastor gets paid, the light bill for the church is paid, missions are accomplished, etc.

If the churches members do not support the church...who will?

[dhoward]

The real fact of the matter is, churches cost a lot of money to run. Their only real source of income is from the congregation, in the form of donations, fundraisers, etc.
Many people see church as a social event, with actual worship being secondary. Thus, they are payin dues to belong to a 'club'. Nothing wrong with that, in and of itself.
When the message become "pay your way into heaven", that's when it gets ugly.

There's a Roman Catholic church in St. Louis, founded by polish immigrants. It's finances have been managed by a board of directors since the 1800's. A new Archbishop was installed recently, and his take was that all of the church's assets belonged to the Roman Catholic church. He told them if they didn't surrender everything they would be excommunicated. They didn't and he did. This only strengthened their resolve. As it stands right now, they are in a lengthy appeals process.
No, it's not about the money...

[IROC]

I don't think anyone's church is demanding a tithe. I would hope that churches didn't do that. I think the word "demanded" is not accurately depicting what my in-laws are being subjected to. I think it is more of what I would call "subtle coercion".

From what I could quickly learn via some reading, it appeared to me that tithing was primarily a Mosaic Law kinda thing, but I wanted to hear what mainstream, practicing Christians said about it.

Thanks.

Mike