Why do many guest workers & immigrants complain about the US economic system?

[jkarolyi]

Here's a conversation with some co-workers at my university, two Canadians, one German, and one Brit. All are guest workers or recent immigrants.

Canadians (summarizing): "Bush and Cheney are corporate puppets who oppose unions and let big business screw the working class."

Brit: "Yeah, here in America they can just lay you off for no reason with no severance pay. In England when you get a job you have it for life if you're a good worker."

German: "Yeah, and here we have a lousy two weeks vacation. In Germany we get 4-6 weeks. And here we have to pay for health insurance ourselves."

Me: "So why did you guys come to work here?"

One of them: "Because I was offered a job here"

Me: "Why do you think we had these jobs available to offer you in the first place?"

Them: *crickets chirping*

Don't they realize that the very reason why America has low unemployment and tons of job opportunities is because we are business friendly and allow businesses to expand and contract as the market demands? That businesses aren't held as slaves to labor unions?

Are people really this clueless? Anyone hear similar things from immigrants or guest workers at your job? Makes me wonder if they teach economics overseas.

I won't go into their opinions on American "imperialism".

[tiggy]

Might be due to the climate in the US.

It can be very depressing being rained on for 360 days of the year with the other 5 days being slightly cloudy !!

[Dixie]

Might be due to the climate in the US.

It can be very depressing being rained on for 360 days of the year with the other 5 days being slightly cloudy !!

Why would you assume the U.S.A. has the same weather as England?

[tiggy]

Having read my response I can see where I have misled you !!

I meant the climate in England compared to the US.

Sometimes the damp over here makes your brain short circuit.

The only place I know that is close to being as damp as the UK is Seattle, as I lived there for a few years when my Dad worked for Boeing. ( Back in the 60'd before that nice Mr Gates bought everything !! )

So....anyone coming from Europe to the US may suffer from this affliction afterall.....

" Seems it never rains in Southern California........"

[Rikao4]

Because at "home' Mom took care of them, now that they are here they need/ are looking for another Mom.
Tell them to go home.
Rika

[gaijindabe]

I have a few South American friends who always tell me how unliberated and up-tight we are.. Yes, but we also have a low tolerance for kidnapping and children living on the street.. One thing kind of goes with the other.

[tiggy]

It may be they come to America in the hope of having an accident, sueing someone and then retiring back to where they came from !!

Actually, now I think about it ............ Do Continental still fly from Gatwick ????

[legion]

A (very left-leaning) coworker of mine goes to a doctor here in town who is from Canada.

Apparently he continually raves up and down about how much better the Canadian healthcare system is. I simply asked her if it is so much better up there, why did he move down here?

To make more money.

So it seems the major fault to Canada's healthcare system is that doctors are not adequately compensated. Isn't it kind of hypocritical to sing praises to the very system you left because of its faults?

[Superman]

Many of the most important things in life are counterintuitive. Happiness is something that will elude you if you chase it, but come if you try to give it to others. Stuff like that.

The notion that paving the way for corporations using gold bricks will result in prosperity for workers is a simple and attractive concept that allows the believer to draw some very positive conclusions about their economic savvy. But unfortunately:

Supply-side economics has been fully debunked for everyone except those who have not reviewed the data and....

America's properity explosion occurred AFTER and not BEFORE the advent of the labor laws you guys consider inappropriately stifling.

I like to caricaturize theories in my mind, to see if they test out by extension. Let's automate processes as much as possible, since it helps profits so much to avoid labor costs. Let's also outsource the services we cannot use a machine for. And let's remove safety regulations and eliminate the prohibition against using ten year-old boys to do underground mining and girls of that age for making garments. They have small fingers and great dexterity.

This way, prosperity will soar.

[Christien]

Originally posted by legion
So it seems the major fault to Canada's healthcare system is that doctors are not adequately compensated. Isn't it kind of hypocritical to sing praises to the very system you left because of its faults?

Hey, that's a national pastime here! We play hockey, drink beer, discuss the weather in earnest, and gripe about the health care system.

Seriously, though, the differences between Canadian and US healthcare are often major issues this side of the border, because, like you said, we lose a lot of doctors to the US because of higher pay. (we also "import" a lot of doctors from overseas, but that's another story) My impression is that, if you can afford proper health care, you'll get better, and certainly faster, treatment in the US, however the right to good health care for everyone, regardless of financial ability, is taken very seriously in Canada.

I don't think the major fault of our health care system is that doctors aren't adequately compensated, though that is a problem. I think the major problem is the entire system is underfunded - doctors, surgeons, hospitals, paramedics, etc. I think that's why right now we're sort of on the brink of part-private, part-public healthcare, but being in between is probably the worst of both worlds.

[wcc]

They do it here cause they weren't allowed to do it in there.

[Tobra]

Originally posted by jkarolyi


Are people really this clueless?

Yes, yes they are.

Oh, BTW, the Candian healthcare program is underfunded, they have dceided to institute something they can't afford, and when it does not work right, they are surprised. It is sort of like the people who buy a 911, can't afford the maint costs and then ***** about what a piece of crap a Porsche is

[ejames19]

No problem in funding the program (considering our tax rates) Ontario alone has had surplus of BILLIONS of dollars each year, in which they decide to use in other areas other then Medical and Educational programs. Our Doctor's are capped based on ammount of patients, hours and other areas. I am not sure about specialists or neuro surgeons of the type? The money is there, the resources are not.

[red-beard]

Originally posted by Superman
Supply-side economics has been fully debunked for everyone except those who have not reviewed the data and....

Ah yes, that is why this country has the worst economic outlook in the world.

[livi]

In Sweden we have a Social Democratic political agenda going for the last half century. Basically it dictates that those who are willing to work hard and make money shall fork over the bulk of their earnings to those who are not willing to work. Everyone alike is supposed to have the same economical standard, education, health care etc. Whether you contribute or not.

Its a middle class swamp where the enthusiasts are drowned by the rest.

On the other hand my job is safe and I do get at least 6 weeks paid vacation per year. Not to mention at least 6 more weeks annually as on call compensation.

[speeder]

Originally posted by jkarolyi
Don't they realize that the very reason why America has low unemployment and tons of job opportunities is because we are business friendly and allow businesses to expand and contract as the market demands? That businesses aren't held as slaves to labor unions?

Are people really this clueless?

You can harp on labor unions, (who I would agree have over-played their hand in certain major industries), but I would take exception with your brilliant economic theories due to the fact that jobs are leaving the U.S. at an alarming rate and will continue to do so with or w/o unions in place here. In fact, if your hero the American businessman could save a buck by using Ugandans instead of Mexicans in the meat packing plant, it would be time to send the Mexicans home.

The wonderful world of the Republican mind assumes that every man, woman and child can simply become an entrepneur and open their own little business when all of the jobs go to China, 200 million hot dog carts selling their schit to (?), and considers workers here to be a necessary evil result of not enough 3rd world residents within a city bus ride of their business.

[Rikao4]

Livi, what a sad state of affairs. So when you hit the $ for your hard work and idea..some slob down the road will benefit, and still not go to work..Sorry ,I'm not my or your brother's keeper. Matter of fact ..get out.
Rika

[jkarolyi]

>jobs are leaving the U.S. at an alarming rate and will continue to do so with or w/o unions in place here.

I've been hearing this from our lefty media for decades, yet our unemployment is still the lowest in the civilized world. How do you explain this?

Our flexible economy replaces jobs outsourced overseas, usually with better-paying white collar jobs. Who in the USA wants to work in a meat-packing plant? Outsourcing makes businesses more efficient and productive, thus enabling them to grow and hire more business managers. It also provides a way for people in underdeveloped countries like China, Mexico, and India to raise their standard of living out of poverty levels.

Until the unemployment rate in the USA rises to Euro levels, I don't buy the "jobs are leaving the USA at an alarming rate" mantra of the left.

I should add that not ALL guest workers and immigrants talk like my co-workers. Those coming from REALLY bad governments and economic systems embrace the American system. A lady from Rwanda cleans our offices and a Mexican guy maintains our building, and you'd never meet more patriotic people.

[Rikao4]

I want a good life and a few material things. So I work, I want more Porsche,
so I work, if your willing to settle for (take your pick) it's your choice, just don't expect me to pay for it. I(we) don't owe you anything, as soon as you get that..your on your way to growing up.
Rika

[Nathans_Dad]

I've been wondering about a real solution to the outsourcing issue and I thought about starting a thread, but then this one came along!!

Seems to me we have a few options:

1). Admit that the global economy is something that is in its infancy. Similar to our economy a few hundred years ago. Will that economy eventually get out of the growing pains stage and mature as ours did? Can we envision an America 50 years down the road where our workers are more high tech, assembling complex units from more basic bits produced elsewhere? Where our food is all imported from other countries with more argiculture based economies and not grown here? If we can, is outsourcing really avoidable? Should we avoid it or is it better to accept the reality of the future and begin to change our economy?

2). Refuse to accept the idea of a global economy and put more restrictions on foreign products and US companies who outsource.

I really don't know the answer and I'm not sure anyone does. I am getting the distinct impression that outsourcing is here to stay and might not be such a bad thing, IF we can move our workers into higher tech jobs. If a global economy is inevitable, shouldn't we accept it and begin to change to take advantage?