Need arguments against vegetarianism

[austin552]

But man is a carnivorous production

And must have meals - at least once a day;

He cannot live, like woodcocks, upon suction,

But, like the shark and tiger, must have prey.


Lord Byron (1788-1824)
‘Don Juan’ (1821)

[M.D. Holloway]

Originally posted by fastpat
[B]No, that's not true. Those animals can't use tools to slay their prey, they must use teeth designed to hold the prey until it expires. The Gorilla is mostly a vegetarian, yet it has larger canine teeth, for a purpose. They don't use tools for self defense, we do.



Maqn is most certainly supposed to eat meat, leaner meat than a lot of what we eat today, but red meat is human food.

So before man had figured out how to use a stick or rock or pit to kill an animal he/she was a scavenger and an herbivore? It was only after he invented death tools that he started eating fresh meat? And then it becomes good for them?


But really Pat, I am curious, why do you think people are supposed to eat meat?

[M.D. Holloway]

What about eating human flesh? Is that good? Repulsive on a cultural basis but what about on a purely scienctific basis? Is it possably OK and good to do so?

[Rot 911]

Originally posted by Moses
Vegetarianism is a choice. It can be motivated by sprituality, health or compassion. Because it is a choice, it is wrong for an adult to compel a child to be vegan. Better to say "Mommy chooses to not eat meat, daddy eats meat. You can decide what's right for you."
Why burden kids with our whimsical commitments before they reach the age of reason?

Moses answer is right on the money. Unfortunately, the problem has less to do with being a meat eater and more to do with a phobia. Markus' wife is not being logical and, therefore, will not entertain any rational argument.

I love meat, eat it every day. But even I have to admit that I feel healthier when I don't eat so much meat. Like for example the 1/2lb hamburger I just ate for lunch. I'm draggin now.

[livi]

Moses, like I said - my opinion exactly. Implying a tad rationality does not work, however. Her mother reasons - fine, then let her decide when she is old enough. Until then she is a vegetarian.

My answer: Since vegetarian style is the less common, unorthodox view, mine should prevail. But alas..

I believe evolution has made our digestive system prepared to live on most anything and survive. Meat included or not. In terms of health there are a number of arguments in both directions. One that I find particularly interesting has to do with the long term effects of high load animal protein intake. The digestive process creating a lot of byproducts and generally speeding up the metabolism. Creation of large numbers of free oxygen radicals and eventually leading to premature breakdown of tissue, higher risk of malignant decease and death.

Hey, maybe I should give in and turn veggie myself..

[M.D. Holloway]

Certain African tribes ingest raw cow blood daily and in the Amazon, various tribes eat tarantulas and in other parts of remote Asia they drink a fluid that is the fermented chewing’s of a root and spit. Their diet traditions are based on several things but do they "make sense"? What about that lovely dish from Scotland which utilizes stomach and so forth?

Human beings make many choices. Many are based on traditions that are obsolete. They started out due to necessity but never got replaced because of nostalgia.

[M.D. Holloway]

Markus - your a man of science and reason, try out being a vegan for 6 months. Thats what I did years ago and it lasted for years. It was an experiment nothing more. One thing is for sure, it really will not hurt you and you may learn something.

Do you have access to any diagnostic equipment? Blood work tests? EGG/EKG/PETT/CAT? Stress Tests? If so, do a study and publish a paper on it

[M.D. Holloway]

FastPat - why not engage in a similar study. I would well imagine that there are a few nurses who would be interested to do such a study. Heck, maybe you could even get a research grant or something?

[livi]

Mike, considering my initial request it may sound ridiculous, but I have actually played with that thought for several years. And of course this was a concern on my baby daughters part primarily.

Yes, I do have access to just about any diagnostic tool. Could be interesting. And besides, now with my 40 years old - crisis culminating, I´d do anything with even the most remote chance of heighten my energy level and spirit.

Hey, there might even be a Nobel Prize in there...

[M.D. Holloway]

cut me in!

[targa911S]

Originally posted by LubeMaster77
What about eating human flesh? Is that good? Repulsive on a cultural basis but what about on a purely scienctific basis? Is it possably OK and good to do so?

Well there are some tribes in the south seas that eat their dead. They have developed a mystery disease much like mad cow from eating each others brains. So I guess the answer is no.

I think I watch too much PBS.

[Rikao4]

a moment of silence for Markus, first he gave up meat,
is the Porsche far behind ?
in jest Markus
Rika

[Rikao4]

Markus, in another thread Lube is looking for a Lamb (Meat) recipe.
Rika

[RickM]

How about the pesticide angle? Are the Veggies organic? There are risks here as well.

[Tobra]

While it is possible to take in an adequate amount of protein with a vegan diet, it is very likely to have an adverse impact on the child. Humans are omnivorous, and a growing child needs a lot of everything. If you want a small kid, go vegan by all means.

That said, you should know by now that you will have to get used to saying, "You are right honey, lets do it that way" You don't have to necessarily mean it, but you will have to say it to maintain domestic tranquility.

Eating human flesh would put you at risk for the human version of Mad Cow.

[vash]

ok, i am grossed out.

from what i have heard and read. some cultures eat the placenta! true?

[techweenie]

Pam Anderson is a vegetarian, and look what happened to her!

[Rikao4]

Now Vash, you know someone will chime in shortly with
'taste like chicken'
Rika

[Rikao4]

Don't forget her well developed 'Brain, oops i meant drain'

[fastpat]

Originally posted by LubeMaster77
FastPat - why not engage in a similar study. I would well imagine that there are a few nurses who would be interested to do such a study. Heck, maybe you could even get a research grant or something?

Those studies and much more have been done, decades ago in fact.

While anecdotal evidence presented in this thread exists, it cannot be said to be applicable population wide. Further, since most studies are of young males in their 20's, pregnant women are ruled out for ethical and liability reasons, children are ruled out for the same reasons; no vegetarian could state it's OK for either to practice the, well for lack of a better word, ritual.

Vegetarians do what they do for mostly religious reasons, beliefs without proofs are a religion of a sort; science does not support vegetarianism and never has.