The Myth of the Math and Science Shortage

[IROC]

Originally posted by slakjaw
You are also forgetting that we supply the world with Music, TV shows, Movies, Books, Storys....... The list goes on.

This nothing to brag about.

Mike

[wludavid]

I think this country's last bastion of creativity is in marketing. Hence, why we export ***** music, movies, tv.

[slakjaw]

IMO

You cannot just write it off like that.

[widebody911]

Originally posted by slakjaw
most new advancements will continue to come from this country.
I think you're underestimating our competition.

You are also forgetting that we supply the world with Music, TV shows, Movies, Books, Storys....... The list goes on.
You say that like it's a good thing, ie: Eminem, 50 cent, Britney Spears, American Idol, Bareback Mountain, Men are From Mars/Women are from Uranus, Paris Hilton.

[nostatic]

This country is on the decline. The world is getting flatter and we will continue to lose. The "innovation" in this country is being driven on the backs of foreign nationals. Who go back home. And once their cultures start to change, turn out the lights...the party's over.

I work with a lot of upper level "innovators" who hang out at Aspen Forum, TED, DAVOS, etc. They are all scrambling to deal with this problem. Most of the best minds in the country believe this to be *the* crisis facing the nation (well, along with health care costs, spiraling defense costs, etc)

But some blog guy thinks its a conspiracy. Yeah, he must be right...

[onewhippedpuppy]

NASA's engineer shortage:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0218/p17s02-lehl.html

[fastpat]

Originally posted by onewhippedpuppy
NASA's engineer shortage:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0218/p17s02-lehl.html

I hope that shortage increases. Closing down all government activities in space would be a benefit to us all.

[EdT82SC]

The only reason salaries for those science professors is so low is because the supply of professors from other countries outstrips the demand. I don't see how people are going to get really excited about working in a field where the salaries held down by the cheap cost of labor in India and China. We don't have fewer students going into the sciences merely because they are harder (though they are). The pay for the work is just not as good as it is in other fields. All the big computer companies got stuck paying huge salaries in the late 90's because of the double hit of the internet bubble and Y2K fixes. They don't want to ever have to worry about that again, and India is the solution. Employers have a lot more influence (through hiring and salary they pay) over the number of people going into math and science then the government can have through programs to promote the sciences.

[IROC]

Originally posted by fastpat
I hope that shortage increases. Closing down all government activities in space would be a benefit to us all.

Except for the people who make their living from these activities.

I worked in the space program for 12 years. From the inside, you get a perspective that is never communicated the general public. Beyond the science and engineering advances that come out of the space program (yes, there are some) there is something noble, in my opinion, about the exploration of space.

Should the taxpayers fund this "noble" cause. IMHO, yes. There are far worse things that we spend taxpayer's money on. Heck, the $300B that's been spent on the war would have funded NASA at it's current level for almost 20 years. NASA's budget is a drop in the bucket in the big scheme of things.

If our local NASA center was hiring - I'd change jobs.

Mike

[fastpat]

Originally posted by IROC
Except for the people who make their living from these activities.

I worked in the space program for 12 years. From the inside, you get a perspective that is never communicated the general public. Beyond the science and engineering advances that come out of the space program (yes, there are some) there is something noble, in my opinion, about the exploration of space.

I'm a supporter of space exploration, provided it's done without stolen money.

Should the taxpayers fund this "noble" cause. IMHO, yes.

Absolutely not. Using stolen loot for a noble endeavor taints it irrevocably. There shouldn't one penney of stolen money, what you call taxes, for space exploration or any of a thousand other government boondoggles.

There are far worse things that we spend taxpayer's money on.

Since it's stolen money, it's tainted money. It sullies everything it touches.[/b][/quote]

Heck, the $300B that's been spent on the war would have funded NASA at it's current level for almost 20 years. NASA's budget is a drop in the bucket in the big scheme of things.

If our local NASA center was hiring - I'd change jobs.

Mike

NASA is just another government thug agency. They've written federal laws that require federal government permission for private space ventures, even the BATFAE gets into the act.

You should find better associates.

[IROC]

Originally posted by fastpat
NASA is just another government thug agency. They've written federal laws that require federal government permission for private space ventures, even the BATFAE gets into the act.

You should find better associates.

You imply that NASA writes laws? Interesting.

I stand by my statements. I think space exploration is a noble way to spend taxpayer's money.

Mike

[nostatic]

i hope your kids all enjoy working for walmart...

The hubris of this country is just astounding. We *used* to be the innovators in the world. Now we barely squeak by, resting on our laurels. Students don't do math/science because "it's too hard" and "I can get an MBA and make a bunch of money in business or as a lawyer."

Well, that crap is all going to come crashing down once India and China loosen their cultural/educational issues and their "creativity" ethic starts to catch up with their work ethic. Then you can kiss our economy good-bye

[Rodeo]

We won't all be working at Walmart. A lot of us will be selling hamburgers to Walmart employees.

[widebody911]

Originally posted by Rodeo
We won't all be working at Walmart. A lot of us will be selling hamburgers to Walmart employees.

Those of us who can't cook will be washing WalMart employees' cars.

[Rodeo]

Originally posted by widebody911
Those of us who can't cook will be washing WalMart employees' cars.

Which will be made in China ... and sold at Walmart

[Superman]

Lincoln was a sociopathic monster. There is no shortage of American engineers and scientists. What next? The moon is made of green cheese?

It's like Dubya's gambit. If he'd found WMD, he could have been the genius of all geniuses. He's thrown the dice on a DISTANT longshot. And lost.

Pat, we'll think you're smarter if you STOP espousing these obviously incorrect theories.

[wludavid]

EDIT: nevermind. obscure and off-topic.

[Rodeo]

Originally posted by wludavid
EDIT: nevermind. obscure and off-topic.

Oops, Now I'm responding to a post that no longer exists!

I must say I think the tragedy of the commons is precisely on topic, for practically anything Pat posts. In fact, we have been over this before, and reached the conclusion that Pat is not so much a libertarian as he is an anarchist.

He does not care one wit what happens after all of federal, state and local government is abolished. As far as I can tell, he has never posted a single word on the topic of what his world would look like if he had his way.

My guess is that loincloth would come back into style.

[wludavid]

Sorry Rodeo.

Here's the link I had posted before: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

While I sympathize with small-gov't proponents, hard core libertarians have never really explained how to deal with things that benefit all, but individuals cannot be excluded from: the Commons.

[Rodeo]

I too support the idea of a smaller government. But anarchy is not my cup of tea, nor is a society based upon brutal principles of survival of the fittest.

Pat's extreme positons convince me once again that the Budda was correct: The middle road is where the enlightened travel.