Truth about CCW - Video

pbs911 · pbs911's Garage

I really don't understand the whole "gun control" mindset.

Quote:

Oh, all these people are going to have guns. It's going to be more dangerous when we make car stops," Merritt recalled them saying.

More and more, I think the following video will represent the thoughts of every State Legislature.

http://www.ky3.com/news/2266381.html?autovid=Y

FrayAdjacent911 · 02-09-2006, 04:35 PM

Cops should like citizens with CCW. That means they have passed a state, local, and federal background check, and have completed a course regarding the laws in their state, and have submitted pictures and fingerprints to state authorities.

Basically, they're upstanding citizens, and they've proved it.

And of course, every state that adopts CCW laws, where gun banners cry about blood in the streets and shootouts over traffic accidents, and such... never materialize.

Anyway, I need to get off my dead rear end and get my CHL.

slakjaw · 02-09-2006, 05:00 PM

In my state I dont want it.

If you wanna pack, put it on your hip

Thats all there is to it.

Great..... Billy Jo is now walking around packing heat. That gives me a really warm feeling inside.

Why is it that because I dont like CCW it makes me anti gun or part of the "gun control" crowd???????

FrayAdjacent911 · 05:59 PM

Slak, because it puts you in the 'people with guns are bad' crowd. By association, you're saying 'if someone conceals a gun, they're bad'.

CCW laws mostly enable a choice. It gives law abiding citizens the choice to obtain a permit, and carry a weapon to protect themselves with.

Why is that bad?

BTW, I'd like to be able to carry it on my hip. It's a big sign that says "I'm not going to let someone make me a victim"

An armed society is a polite society.

lm6y · 02-09-2006, 06:23 PM

I wish Illinois would pass CCW. It really sucks meeting meth heads in the Shawnee National Forest unarmed.

I worry more about the people in the forest than I do the animals.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

I carry all the time and will never again live somewhere that doesn't allow it. Why should I have to wait for the cops to show up and take a report after I've helplessly stood by and watched a crime take place? Why do folks who don't want to carry not want others to carry? What's the danger? No criminal is gonna observe the law anyway. In VA we have well over 100k CCW permit holders. Probably a lot more now than when I first heard that number 8 yrs. ago. I've never heard of a permit holder committing a crime. I've never heard of a permit holder haivng their permit revoked for misuse of a gun. And believe me, the anti-gun media would never let it slide if this had happened. I don't understand any downside whatsoever to CCW. It usually reduces crime where it has been enacted and it empowers people to take responsibility for their own protection. The Supreme Court has already ruled that the cops have no obligation to protect you. Why would you want to rely on them for anything other than an investigation? I don't dial 911.

slakjaw · 02-09-2006, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FrayAdjacent911
Slak, because it puts you in the 'people with guns are bad' crowd. By association, you're saying 'if someone conceals a gun, they're bad'.

CCW laws mostly enable a choice. It gives law abiding citizens the choice to obtain a permit, and carry a weapon to protect themselves with.

Why is that bad?

BTW, I'd like to be able to carry it on my hip. It's a big sign that says "I'm not going to let someone make me a victim"

An armed society is a polite society.

But I don't think people with guns are bad.

I would just like to know who is packing and who is not. That's why I would rather see them out in the open. I just do not get why they have to be hidden. Generally, you hide something because it is bad.

I will also continue to disagree with the "An armed society is a polite society" thing. There is no evidence to support that statement.

slakjaw · 02-09-2006, 06:55 PM

This one thing makes people think I am anti gun. I am not, I just disagree with CCW.

Thankfully we live in America where we are all allowed to disagree.

in my county you can still put a gun on your hip if you want to. It is still legal (as it should be everywhere, regardless of what the soccer moms have to say) However no one does it because there is no crime here.

fastpat · 02-09-2006, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by slakjaw
I will also continue to disagree with the "An armed society is a polite society" thing. There is no evidence to support that statement.

There's a veritable mountain of evidence that supports that sentiment. The areas of America that have the highest percentage of gun ownership have the lowest crime rates, and more important, the lowest violent crime rates.

Those islands of low gun ownership, the large cities, consistently have the highest crime rates. In fact, if it weren't for the 20 largest American cities' effect on crime statistics, we'd have a crime rate lower than Canada's.

FrayAdjacent911 · 02-09-2006, 07:12 PM

Slak, you're right.

But on the same measure, why shouldn't people have to wear labels for what medications they're on? I mean, I'd want to avoid people with serious personality disorders.

Or maybe sex offenders? Why don't they have to wear a sign? (actually, I wish they did... that would be a pretty good deterrant, IMHO)

The thing about concealing is - it keeps people guessing. Johnny thug is contemplating robbing a store - he has to think 'maybe someone in there is packing.. maybe I shouldn't'

And like the above, if I'm going about my business, and carry to protect myself, I shouldn't have to advertize it.

And for the 'armed society is a polite society' it's simple. You're not going to knowingly piss off someone who is armed, are you? No, you're probably going to be polite to them. And if people know, or reasonably suspect, you are armed, they'd probably be polite to you, too.

HardDrive · 02-09-2006, 08:01 PM

How about a CAP (Concealed A55hole Permit).

Should would make my life simpler.

widebody911 · widebody911's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by fastpat
The areas of America that have the highest percentage of gun ownership have the lowest crime rates, and more important, the lowest violent crime rates.

You probably want to amend that to legal gun ownership. I'll bet there's more guns per capita in Compton than Bumblefuch Idaho, where you get a gun when you open a checking account.

jyl · jyl's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by slakjaw
I would just like to know who is packing and who is not. That's why I would rather see them out in the open. I just do not get why they have to be hidden. Generally, you hide something because it is bad.

I usually hear two reasons to prefer concealed carry over open carry, and they both make sense to me.

First, concealed carry means criminals don't know which potential victim is armed. The old man, or small woman, could be packing a .357. This acts as a broader deterrent to crime. With open carry, the criminals know who is armed and who is not. Since the 99% of the population that is not armed can now be safely victimized, the deterrent effect disappears.

Second, weapons openly worn make many people uncomfortable, at least outside of rural areas. Those who legally go armed are a very small minority of the population. A very small minority had best not go around making the other 99% feel uncomfortable, if they want to keep their rights.

I can think of at least two more reasons, though you don't hear them as much.

First, armed persons should not (consciously or not) use the fact that they are armed to intimidate other persons in normal social situations. The CCW laws thus require weapons to stay concealed, under pain of losing the license. This also helps weed out those who want to carry a gun for the wrong reasons (to show off).

Second, with some particularly homicidal criminals, it might be safer for an armed person to blend in, rather than stand out. If that kind of criminal knows you are carrying, he knows that he should shoot you first (e.g. in the back), then take your firearm that he can sell for at least a couple hundred $.

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

Matt: Get off your butt and get your CHL! www.packing.org

Slak: I understand your concern. But John puts it together. The Sheeple don't like guns and get nervous around them.

The good news about concealed vs. open. Most places with open carry, you don't need a permit. So no training, no background check, etc. A CHL (Texas speak - Concealed Handgun License) means you have been blessed by the FBI (No Felonies anywhere in the US), you undergo 8 hours of classrom training on the laws of Texas to do with Handguns and use of deadly force, and you undergo a marksman test with a handgun. You have to pass all sections or you are out your $140 ($250-300 when you include the class).

ANd there are restriction on where you can carry. No bars (51% or more of the revenue is Alcohol). Sports arena, schools, government bldgs,Post Office.

I for one would like open carry as well, but for Texas, you can only do that on your own property.

slakjaw · 02-10-2006, 04:50 AM

IMO

If you get the CHL you should have the option of open carry. That way if the bad guys don’t see it out on your hip, they would still think twice about mugging you.

I think we can agree on that.

fastpat · 02-10-2006, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by widebody911
You probably want to amend that to legal gun ownership. I'll bet there's more guns per capita in Compton than Bumblefuch Idaho, where you get a gun when you open a checking account.

Actually, no, there's not. That's why black on black crime is so high; low ownership rates among the population as a whole. Keep in mind I'm not counting a person owning multiple guns, because that's not really relevant to the meaning of the sentiment of "an armed society is a polite society".

That addresses the fact that the part of America that's still an armed culture is more crime free.

The culture of cities is as much related to high crime rates as the gun ownership rates, perhaps more so.

slakjaw · 02-10-2006, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fastpat
Actually, no, there's not. That's why black on black crime is so high; low ownership rates among the population as a whole. Keep in mind I'm not counting a person owning multiple guns, because that's not really relevant to the meaning of the sentiment of "an armed society is a polite society".

That addresses the fact that the part of America that's still an armed culture is more crime free.

The culture of cities is as much related to high crime rates as the gun ownership rates, perhaps more so.

Yes because gangbangers are so polite.

Joeaksa · 02-10-2006, 05:12 AM

Boil it down to states and counties who allow CCW have a lower crime rate. When this movement started sweeping the country all the liberal "ban the gun nuts" pissed and moaned that we will have "Dodge City" all over again. 10 years later they have been proven wrong but you will never hear them admit it. The young punk criminals know this and find other areas to live and steal where they will not get shot by the armed law abiding public.

Where I live its not unusual to see someone packing on their hip. Many people do. As well a large number of people have a CCW permit and have a weapon within easy reach. This makes it legal to keep your weapon in the glovebox while in a resturant or bank and still have it available on the drive home.

I do not have a CCW because I do not want my name on any list anywhere showing that I could have now or in the past owned a firearm. In the 1930's Hitler used these lists to go to private houses and sieze everyone's guns. We all know what happened next.

England, Canada and Australia have all pretty much banned any small firearms, and in most cases unless you are a hunter and can show a need for a shotgun or hunting rifle, you cannot possess one at home. As well in any of these "gun ban" countries the criminals still have guns and the crime rate has risen since the ban went into place.

Joe A
NRA Lifetime member

fastpat · 02-10-2006, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joeaksa
Boil it down to states and counties who allow CCW have a lower crime rate. When this movement started sweeping the country all the liberal "ban the gun nuts" pissed and moaned that we will have "Dodge City" all over again. 10 years later they have been proven wrong but you will never hear them admit it.

The real start of it was Florida's passage of the first modern CCW law in 1987. Interestingly, Florida is keeping detailed records of any law violations committed by CCW holders to get a database of genuine experience. No state had really looked into what broad spectrum carrying of concealed weapons meant prior to 1987.

Based on Florida's real experience, other states enacted similar legislation, now up to nearly 40 or so I think. Of course, Vermont remains the only state in full compliance with the Second Amendment, anyone can carry concealed for lawful purposes, resident or not, without a permit or training of any kind. Vermont, naturally, is either the lowest or in the lowest three, in violent criminal activity in America despite its' close proximity to New York.

The huge amount of data accumulated by states with culturally diverse populations with modern CCW laws on the books should have knocked the wind out of the sails of any opponents of concealed carry legislation long ago. That has not happened at all. The fascist Handgun Control Inc., now the Brady Center, ignores all such information in their unquenched passion to disarm America by any means possible. No lie is too big or too wacky for their propaganda machine.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Pat, my company distributes the press releases for Brady, Ohioans for Concealed Carry, the IL State Rifle Assoc. and Citizens Comm. for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. Brady's press releases make my blood boil. They are soooooo chock full with outright false information, to say nothing of the inuendo and hyperbole. The others are short, to the point and factual. It's just amazing what Brady can get away with because of the news media's sympathy. Anyone else who put out a press release with so much bs in it would be laughed at. I'm surprised the AP even takes them.