So, want to see what a $17,000 MM rebuild looks like
 

"This is an exceptional example of a 1989 911 coupe. I have just over $20,000. in reciepts from Motor Meister in California for a 3.6 conversion that was done only 5,000 miles ago. The 5 pages which list all of the work done to the car are in with the pictures below."

http://i3.ebayimg.com/03/i/06/32/34/...PG?set_id=100D

Click here -

Last page: Am I reading right? 4 cross drilled rotors, braided lines and front seals and bearing $2495.


I guess the 300 hp+ hand written on the first page certifies the power. lol

Yep - and I see where the engine has been bumped to 3.6 but the crank has been cleaned and micropolished... Huh?

GE80 cams and a tach with a 6200 RPM rev limit? A GE80 cam has only been "on-cam" for about 1000 RPM at that engine speed!

New parking brake shoes. When do those ever wear out?

http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/bawling.gif

$5100 bid on Tues PM... no reserve auction??? Something is not kosher here...:cool:

Too bad he has all that money in the car.

Only when you drive with the parking brake on!

bet when he goes to crap, all you hear is air...
ryan

Shouldn't it at least have a 3.6 L fan housing????

My guess is they made it out of the 3.2 - or maybe the exchanged it for a 2.7... They charged him extra for the 3.6 "big bore kit" I like the "racemeister" fuel delivery system.

911
 

That guy lives a couple towns away from me! The pics look like they were from last summer. Maybe I should look at it. Kevin.

I've heard of stickers adding horse power... but I've never seen a sticker that can reduce a car's value by, hell, I don't know... 50%!?

Mr. Pate,
What are you going to do in Germany? Are you staying there to enjoy the Ring? Dream retirement? Best of luck and be sure to posts your adventures in the home of our beloved toys.

Umm...the RaceMeister fuel delivery kit consists of what, some rain hats for the PMO Webers and new fuel lines? What a crock.

Poor bastard. Ouch.
Some of that is criminal.

Having read so much about MM, why are they still in business? Isn't consumer fraud prosecutable?

Doug

there is always another fool out there. just goes to show, the web is not being used by everyone. I thought we were working to get pano to stop carrying MM adds???

20 grand?? Wow!!

I talked with the owner (he wasn’t who had work done by MM) and here are better images of the invoices. I went on ”RipOff Report.com” and surprisingly there are no reports of MM. If there is a problem, get it together with government. We have law to protect consumers. Everyone should look at these invoices.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1140055297.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1140055358.jpg

Best,
Grady

a fool and his money... soon to be parted

more

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1140055598.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1140055629.jpg


I'll talk to the owner tomorrow and see if I can talk to the PO, the real victum here.

Best,
Grady

It's like a car wreck, the MM stories. I feel bad for everyone involved but just...can't....look....away....

Still trying to figure out how they got to 3.6?? Thanks Grady -

Amazing what marketing can do
 

I love how they write the word "German" in their invoice all over the place. German nuts, German bolts, Bavarian tire air, "If its not German, its crrrapp"

In the BMW world, there's a guy (company more like it) that some look to as the be-all-end-all guru in the engine/transmission department.

More marketing geniuses than real engine builders, they share a reputation among the cognescenti about as vaunted as Motor Meister-(concidentally, the company shares the same initials as MM) The company is built on great marketing with a marginal if not downright poor built-with-used-but-sold-as-new parts product based on suspect theory.

They pass off their junk "innovations" as pure genius that only they though of with bloated horsepower claims (probably backed up by hand written dyno sheets in "German Ink") that somehow millions of dollars in factory development and racing duress (when dyno sheets didnt matter but results did) failed to produce.

Their engines put out about stock power, but blow up and burn oil, are a pain to get any warrantee work on, and the Chief Guru guy has allegedly been published in photos actually surfacing cylinder heads on or with a belt sander.

It has consistently amazed me what a bit of (purchased) good publicity and big ads bought from large clubs such as PCA and BMWCCA will do to float companies with marginal if not bad products. Real gurus dont need publicity.

"Front strut bar - $200 installed" looks like the only even half-decent deal this poor guy got. What is "test oil"? "Break in oil?" And only one filter? Wonder if it was new...

The paperwork looks to me like handwriting done by MS notepad.

Tiorio said it all.

But we all know - even this car will be sold (maybe not on Ebay though). If the new owner shows up on the forum he'll owe us all a beer!

Frank

James - it isn't that the guy was a fool (tho he could have been). Not all 911 owners are mechanically knowedgable and I think the average owner (tho not the avg. bbs frequenter) could have easily been takne in by MM. Their chief flack, Roy, used to post 'help' on the old e-mail based 911 forums - before this bss existed. He did that for quite a while - to garner customers. I thought he would have made a good used car salesman (stereotype) - or carney.

a mm invoice..ughhh..makes me feel all dirty..
ryan

This is the third auction for this car in the last 6 weeks. I traded emails with the guy, he was not the owner that had the MM work done. According to him he purchased the car in Oct 2005 and he’s only put 300 miles on it. I asked why he was selling the car so quickly and I got no reply. The last auction went to 23,800 with reserve met but I guess it didn’t sell. Here is the link

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4611366965&rd=1&sspage name=STRK%3AMEDW%3AIT&rd=1

kind of sad really -

OK. I found out the guy is flipping this car. Also, the car was looked at by a friend of mine and its as fast as he claims. Professionally built and solid. Kevin.

Troll?

Not sure I would use the phrase “professionally built” in conjunction with a Motor Meister creation. There is overwhelming history they’re not so professional.

Winchester Curse
 

At first I thought I should open a East coast MM. Don't know a whole lot about motors and could use lots of $$. Then I realized I would not be able to sleep at night.

For the record this car is listed in my Panorama also at a price of 25.500 obo

Guys, it looks like a decent car. Although the recipts are outrageous, the price of the car at 23,000 is acceptable. There is nothing wrong with a decent 89 carrera with a rebuilt engine, carbs and waste spark ignition. Being on the east coast a stock carrera coupe would sell for around 20K. As long as the car is in good shape I see nothing wrong with paying 23K for it.

>There is nothing wrong with a decent 89 carrera with a rebuilt engine, carbs and waste spark ignition.

Absolutely...I'd love an engine like that in my Carerra. But being that the engine/carbs/RaceMeister system was done by MotorSheister with their "reconditioned" parts, I'd give that engine 10,000 miles at best.

Well I hope the next owner lives in a state where they don't check smog because the car will never pass with those carbs. $20k Motorsheister rebuild and you can't drive it on the street. Ouch!!!

To see what these guys are capable of, check out this thread. A 3.3 turbo engine goes to MM, a 2.7 carbed engine comes back:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=260544&highlight=motorm eister

BTW, does anybody make a 3.6 "Big Bore" kit for a 3.2? Maybe this is one of their innovations.

Avongil, you are correct if we are assuming the engine is in good shape and not ready to hand grenade.
If the engine is a basket case it is worth far less than $23k.
We don't know if it is good or not. Obviously MM does build some good motors but based on their reputation and posts on this board it would appear that they also build some crap motors. Which category does this one fall into?

Can you have High Compression, Billet Forged pistons? When I read billet, I think of a hunk of metal that someone has wittled a part out of.

Can a 3.6 liter, high compression engine live with a single spark plug motor? I looked, but haven't seen the second set of plug wires.

Would a 3.6 liter motor live without an oil cooler upgrade?

Pardon my ignorance, but can you bore a 3.2 out big enough to make a 3.6?

Regards,

Jerry

Here is the adv in the Feb. ‘06 Pano.

Edited to remove personal information -- Noah

EDIT
Sorry, I thought about that a lot. I figured it was published
in a national publication, I did an appropriate quoted excerpt
for critical review and was posted as an image which is
difficult to search. I should have erased the personal info.
Right call Noah. I’ll re-post the text only.

This was published on page 84 of the February, 2006 issue of Porsche Panorama.
END EDIT


My red emphasis.

What is the range of prices for a good running with complete
DME ’89 engine? The 911 appears to be good condition. The
MM decal seems to be the “kiss of death” for some buyers.
Having an OE engine “available” might be a good solution
for both the buyer and seller.

I suspect the number of re-lists reflects potential buyers doing
due diligence and walking from the deal. I suspect the owner
who had the work done took a big hit and the current owner
may also.

Note that the owner lived in Massachusetts and MM did the
installation (presumably in CA). Some expense there also.

In studying the invoice more, I find it hard to believe the
customer was sent off with BP5ES sparkplugs in a “high
compression” GE-80 cam engine. Perhaps it was smoking
so badly that it wouldn’t run with an appropriate BP8ES
or BP9ES.

It would be eye-opening to see more of MM’s invoices.

Sadly,
Grady