Confirmed: V Plame was working on Iran nukes when outed

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by Rodeo
Sorry I don't find compromising national security by political hacks working for the president all that funny.

Yes, I can see this is a deeply emotional experience for you.

[Nathans_Dad]

I step into these waters with some trepidation, because I really think this whole issue was a stupid politcal game from the start and both sides are talking out of their arses about it.

My question is (for both parties), why is one leak ok and another not? Why is the Plame leak grounds for impeachment to the Democrats yet I haven't heard one Democrat calling for an investigation into the NSA wiretap leak? The same goes for Republicans. They piss and moan about the NSA leak yet say that the Plame issue is a non-starter. Come on guys. Either we think National Security is important or we don't. I don't care if Plame was covert or not, selling out a CIA agent for political purposes is wrong.

I'd like to see both sides come together and admit that all leaks are wrong and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. No matter what. Course right after that happens Rodeo and Joe will share a passionate kiss and go skipping into the sunset together....

[Rodeo]

One is a leak of classified information by the highest officials in the White House to advance a political agenda, which is a nice way of saying destroy your enemy. A leak designed to hide the truth and begin a smear campaign.

The other involves scores of lower level government employees, none in the very highest levels of power in the White House, who, out of a sense of constitutional duty, blew the whistle on illegal wiretapping.

[Nathans_Dad]

Gee, I'm shocked that Rodeo continues to do the tapdance.

[Rodeo]

Excellent rebuttal.

[techweenie]

Originally posted by Rodeo
Excellent rebuttal.

Well, that's all there was to come back with.

Your reply was spot on.

Soon they will be throwing in the revelation of offshore (outsourced) torture centers and be equally blind to the difference between damage to national security and damage to the Consititution.

It has to be wilful ignorance. There's no other reasonable explanation.

At the Nuremberg trials these would have been the 'good Germans' who put government authority over moral law.

[Nathans_Dad]

Wow, also shocked that Tech continues to tapdance.

And we wonder why nothing ever gets done in Washington. People are too busy tapdancing and trying to sling mud to ever really fix the issue.

But pay no attention to me, I'm just a stupid neo-con anyways, right?

[Rodeo]

Your transformation to daddy jr. is 99% complete. Get the posts down to 7 words or less, put a smiley face on each of them, and we won't be able to tell the two of you apart.

Tapdance. That's brilliant.

[Nathans_Dad]

Stay the course.

[Rodeo]

Again, I don't find presidential leaks of classified informaton for political purposes funny.

This administration disclosed the identity of a covert CIA agent and shut down a significant intelligence asset that could have played a significant role in our current conflict with Iran. One of the men that did this continues to sit at the right hand of the president.

I'm not laughing. No American should find this at all funny.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by Rodeo
One is a leak of classified information by the highest officials in the White House to advance a political agenda, which is a nice way of saying destroy your enemy. A leak designed to hide the truth and begin a smear campaign.

The other involves scores of lower level government employees, none in the very highest levels of power in the White House, who, out of a sense of constitutional duty, blew the whistle on illegal wiretapping.

Translation:

One group had motives I agree with ......the other did not.

I think Rodeo's idea that things may be leaked if the leaker feels they were doing their Constitutional duty (that Rodeo agrees with of course). Indeed a truly unflappable stand!

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by Rodeo
Again, I don't find presidential leaks of classified informaton for political purposes funny.

This administration disclosed the identity of a covert CIA agent and shut down a significant intelligence asset that could have played a significant role in our current conflict with Iran. One of the men that did this continues to sit at the right hand of the president.

I'm not laughing. No American should find this at all funny.

Significant asset???? What is your intel on that? And again, what is your intel that this was knowingly done to cause harm to anything? the info was released to counter what was believed to be a politically motivated press release by Wilson. That's it.

[Rodeo]

I'm not here to answer your endless series of questions daddy. I just can't wait until you and those like you are pushed back to the margins where you belong. I can't wait to get America back.

[Nathans_Dad]

I don't find the issue funny, I find your inability to do anything but spew partisan hatred and venom funny.

The problem is that this argument can be unending on both sides.

Your argument is that Plame was a vital covert CIA asset and was outed for political purposes while the NSA was just a well meaning whistleblower who was looking out for all of our constitutional rights.

The "NEOCON" argument would be that Plame was a desk level CIA employee who hadn't done any covert work in years. She drove her car from her house to the CIA building every day and had been outed as a covert agent years ago by the Soviets. On the other hand, the NSA program leak has damaged our ability to track our current enemy (al Qaeda) according to many different experts on the subject AND has never been ruled unconstitutional by any court.

So you and Mul or whoever you happen to be arguing with at the time can go round and round about this all you want until you choose to grow up, put aside your partisan political goals and call a spade a spade.

People like you are exactly why we have gridlock in Washington. Both sides primary concern is their public image and trying to pin as much BS on the other guy as they can, sorta like you here in PPOT.

Unfortunately the truth of the issue and how to best solve it gets lost in all the BS.

[Jim Richards]

Originally posted by Nathans_Dad
I'd like to see both sides come together and admit that all leaks are wrong and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. No matter what.

I'm not a Dem, nor am I a Repub. I'm also not on fastpat's planet, although I sometimes agree with him, the Dems, and the Repubs. It's complicated. IMO, both leaks are wrong. There is a process for questioning illegal (but classified) activities. The NSA leaker didn't appear to follow this process, and deserves whatever punishment is meted out for the security breach.

Originally posted by Nathans_Dad
Course right after that happens Rodeo and Joe will share a passionate kiss and go skipping into the sunset together....

I hope no one posts pics here of those two guys swapping spit.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by Rodeo
I'm not here to answer your endless series of questions daddy. I just can't wait until you and those like you are pushed back to the margins where you belong. I can't wait to get America back.

lol, nice cover When finally challenged on your constant and endless exaggerations and extrapolations you are suddenly "not here to answer your endless series of questions" That's gold man, gold! Can I borrow that?

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by Nathans_Dad
My question is (for both parties), why is one leak ok and another not? Why is the Plame leak grounds for impeachment to the Democrats yet I haven't heard one Democrat calling for an investigation into the NSA wiretap leak? The same goes for Republicans. They piss and moan about the NSA leak yet say that the Plame issue is a non-starter. Come on guys. Either we think National Security is important or we don't. I don't care if Plame was covert or not, selling out a CIA agent for political purposes is wrong.

Plame outed herself. She exposed herself by actively working with her husband, overtly hostile to the Bush Administration, to deceive the nation. Valerie lied and still has answered no questions. Joe Wilson lied about what he found, how he found it, and has made a career out of it...The outrage is fake, it is phony, and this is evidenced by the fact that they were public long before being "outed," and they have become quite the couple about town kibbitzing with their leftist supporters and friends, shooting the cover of Vanity Fair, etc.

There is no comparison between the intentional leaking of military secrets and the outing of a CIA bureaucrat that was underhandedly seeking to harm and weaken the nation during wartime.

The only comparable element the two situations share is that they were both used to harm a sitting President, deceptively.

[Tim Hancock]

Originally posted by lendaddy
lol, nice cover When finally challenged on your constant and endless exaggerations and extrapolations you are suddenly "not here to answer your endless series of questions" That's gold man, gold! Can I borrow that?

Won't work for you daddy. That is a Clown Posse exclusive

[Nathans_Dad]

Wow, I couldn't have asked for better proof. Mul and Rodeo prove my point exactly.

Carry on fighting in the sandbox while Rome burns...

[Rodeo]

Originally posted by Nathans_Dad
I don't find the issue funny, I find your inability to do anything but spew partisan hatred and venom funny.

The problem is that this argument can be unending on both sides.

Your argument is that Plame was a vital covert CIA asset and was outed for political purposes while the NSA was just a well meaning whistleblower who was looking out for all of our constitutional rights.

The "NEOCON" argument would be that Plame was a desk level CIA employee who hadn't done any covert work in years. She drove her car from her house to the CIA building every day and had been outed as a covert agent years ago by the Soviets. On the other hand, the NSA program leak has damaged our ability to track our current enemy (al Qaeda) according to many different experts on the subject AND has never been ruled unconstitutional by any court.

So you and Mul or whoever you happen to be arguing with at the time can go round and round about this all you want until you choose to grow up, put aside your partisan political goals and call a spade a spade.

People like you are exactly why we have gridlock in Washington. Both sides primary concern is their public image and trying to pin as much BS on the other guy as they can, sorta like you here in PPOT.

Unfortunately the truth of the issue and how to best solve it gets lost in all the BS.

I appreciate the somewhat substantive response.

1. Every time someone criticizes the president, it becomes "a partisan attack." That is a false claim, and all it does is deflect from the issue at hand. I'm not a "partisan," I don't have anything to gain from either party gaining power. I simply don't like the president using classified material for political purposes. Please save your “partisan” attacks for someone else.

2. Plame was covert. There is no doubt on this point, and no controversy whatsoever. None. Whether she was "vital" does not and cannot excuse outing her. She was a covert agent; her president should not have blown her cover, period.

3. NSA was not one source, but multiple sources. Many, many sources. It is confirmed now that the lawyers that were charged with approving the program hired personal lawyers of their own, because they knew warrantless wiretapping was illegal. Many refused to go along.

I'm glad that the multiple sources came forward and disclosed this illegal activity. In past conversations, you have basically agreed, and endorsed hearings that would never happen had the program remained secret.

The president is not entitled to bury illegal activity by classifying it.

Neither you nor anyone else has offered a single reason why warrantless wiretapping should be classified. How does someone knowing that the NSA will wiretap his or her phone without a warrant damage national security?

It does not. They know NSA will tap their phone, whether it is done with or without a warrant is irrelevant.

Give me a single valid why the warrantless portion of the NSA program should be classified and I would feel differently. Right now, the only reason I can think of is so the president could hide illegal activity.