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Who should be banned is the lame driver who lost control of his car on a straight, and the genious who gridded the cars right by the track.
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Charlie 1966 912 Polo Red 1950 VW Bug 1983 VW Westfalia; 1989 VW Syncro Tristar Doka |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: On a boat in the Great NW
Posts: 6,145
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: On a boat in the Great NW
Posts: 6,145
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Solution?: Get off gas and drive straight, do not over compensate. |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: On a boat in the Great NW
Posts: 6,145
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Moderator
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A couple of points:
I have run Pocono East before. Where the EVO went off is just before the right hand kink on the front straight. It's not much of a kink, so you don't need to be that far on the edge of the track. Actually, he should have already started his approach towards the kink. And it seems to me that it was the classic "two wheels off - fight to get back on track - hook it over to the other side" move. Apparently, many clubs stage in that same position on the Pocono East Course, when running counter-clockwise. I am sure that practice will change. I've never personally seen this, but that's what I've been told. As for IFLYSOLO: The Audi driver (the one who was video taking it) had no business to stop there. He should have driven past the accident, carefully through the debris on the track, and watched the next flagging station for instructions. Stopping where he did put him in more jeopardy - when something like that happens, especially in novice run groups, people's reactions are unpredictable. Though it is a flat course, there is a pretty long blind corner as you approach that straight - folks who are driving 'cone to cone' or 'turn-in to apex to exit' aren't used to looking far enough ahead on the track. A startled driver could have easily collected the Audi. The fact that he didn't pay attention to his instructor is wrong. However... As for the instructor: - She didn't have control of the car, or its driver. Yes, there are drivers who simply do not obey their instructor. But there are different ways of communicting - perhaps there was a communication issue between them. Sometimes instructors don't want to upset their student. But sometimes they need to be spoken to firmly. It appears that the instructor was a bit undecided (hence the moving of the steering wheel one way, and then the other). Can't do that - it's like showing a vicious dog you're afraid. ![]() - IMHO, she had no business tugging at the steering wheel. I know some instructors do this, but I really don't like that - even if the car is going slowly - it confuses the whole "who's driving" idea - if the instructor wants to use the steering wheel, then said instructor should be sitting in the seat that's directly behind the steering wheel. Fortunately, no one was hurt in this incident, which is amazing since the cars were in the staging line. Sheet metal can be unbent more easily than human flesh and bones can... -Z-man.
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2010 Cayman S - 12-2020 - 2014 MINI Cooper S Coupe - 05-17 - 05-21 1989 944S2 - 06-01 - 01-14 Carpe Viam. <>< |
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Guys, I seen some people do some (to me) incredibly stupid things and not even on race tracks but when they had the chance to make a considered choice, this ain't it. He could have just stopped on the track - then he would truly be dangerous. Only time will tell if he is a habitual loser (and maybe he is).
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Byron ![]() 20+ year PCA member ![]() Many Cool Porsches, Projects& Parts, Vintage BMX bikes too |
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Byron ![]() 20+ year PCA member ![]() Many Cool Porsches, Projects& Parts, Vintage BMX bikes too |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: On a boat in the Great NW
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Widebutty, now would be a good time to post your crash video...the one where you lifted mid corner and slammed that dude's Porsh.
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Virginia Rocks!
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Just outside the beltway
Posts: 8,497
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I agree the guy has no business on or near a track, however.
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Byron ![]() 20+ year PCA member ![]() Many Cool Porsches, Projects& Parts, Vintage BMX bikes too |
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I'm with Bill
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Jensen Beach, FL
Posts: 13,028
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My hat is off to ANYONE who gets in that right seat to instruct. You have no clue if your in for a fun day or a day of terror. I have only done 5 track days total and recognized right away that guy was out of line. Expecially once I put the sound on and saw he removed the in car sound of her protesting his actions.
If I disagree with my instructor, it does happen, if I am not in danger I will do what he says, after that session I would simply ask for a different instructor. Sometimes 2 people just do not sync.
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Virginia Rocks!
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Just outside the beltway
Posts: 8,497
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There's another shorter clip out there of the same driver executing turns so badly, you wonder how he was able to drive to the track. Those are the kinds of videos you destroy.
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Rosewood 1983 911 SC Targa | Black 1990 944 S2 | White 1980 BMW R65 | Past: Crystal 1986 944 na Guards Red is for the Unoriginal
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Too big to fail
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"You go to the track with the Porsche you have, not the Porsche you wish you had." '03 E46 M3 '57 356A Various VWs |
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Students respond to different inputs. Some take better to visual inputs. ("Look for the exit point." "See how the car is positioned here?" ...etc) Others are kinesthetic learners. ("Can you feel how the car is handling through that turn?" "Did you feel the back end trying to come around in the corner?" ) Others learn by watching, and still others learn by doing, and so on. Some like more verbal communication, others like less. Some like step-by-step instruction from turn-in, apex, exit, while others prefer comments before or after the turn. If an instructor taps into how the student learns, and can sync up with that type of learning/teaching, then things go much easier for both the student and the instructor. That, IMHO is the most essential element of instructing - it's not how well the instructor drives, or how well he knows the track - it is how effectively he can communicate to his student. Regarding Michelle, the instructor in the vid - had she exhausted all the methods of communication prior to grabbing the steering wheel, I can understand why she may have resorted to that action, given her frustration. But I seriously doubt that she used all the other tools in her pocket to get the guy to listen to her. BTW: It is my understanding that the guy video taping was kicked out of an event at The Glen the Monday after the Pocono event. He and the EVO driver who wrecked are friends, and that is why he stopped and continued to 'roll tape.' -Z.
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2010 Cayman S - 12-2020 - 2014 MINI Cooper S Coupe - 05-17 - 05-21 1989 944S2 - 06-01 - 01-14 Carpe Viam. <>< |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2005
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![]() Just playing, Thom...I have to take any cheap shot I can, you are a liberat. ![]() |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: On a boat in the Great NW
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I still blame the track and the event organizers. Cars in the infield?...I have never seen such a thing, unless they crashed or went off track. |
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Lemme get a track map...stay tuned for details... This should clear things up a bit: ![]() -Z.
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2010 Cayman S - 12-2020 - 2014 MINI Cooper S Coupe - 05-17 - 05-21 1989 944S2 - 06-01 - 01-14 Carpe Viam. <>< |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: On a boat in the Great NW
Posts: 6,145
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Z...It happened. There, in my estimation, should never be cars not racing, or cleaning up debris when cars are stopped, in the track area...They should at very least be behind some type of barrier. You expect the unexpected and always plan for the worst on a track.
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