Why Are Some Good Students So......Stupid?

[M.D. Holloway]

The semester has ended with little fanfare. The majority of my students did respectable – averaging around 83%. A few standouts mostly from the guys that are over 30 and looking to snag their degree part time. Some real talented 2nd and 3rd year students really turned it on. A few bombed for no good reason.

The students have known all semester that the final would be given on-line and they also knew they had a 48hour window. Once they began the exam they had 2 hours to take it.

Half of the graded work was done on-line and submitted as such. The students knew the drill and all were able to do the on-line work. They were told repeatedly that if they experience any issues that they should call me (my cell phone # was given and I provided a 24/7 pick-up or callback – really!). If for any reason I do not call back within a few minutes to call the TA immediately. They also have the Help Desk hotline which does answer 24/7 (I know, I try them periodically). The thing is they can get to somebody for help. Technical difficulties are a weak but semi-acceptable excuse.

One of the best and brightest students – a frosh from NJ who is studying computer science and has tested out of many classes already - this kid has the chops to be a heck of a gamer. He calls me up at 1:00PM yesterday and tells me that he can’t get into the site to take the final. “Dude, the deadline has pasted. It ended midnight. You had all weekend – what happened?” “I guess I must have spaced out and got my dates confused”. I told them all not 48 hours prior!!! I even said to start it early incase of any web issues. WTF???

Two kids out of 20 from his class and 3 out of 20 from the other class missed the final deadline. The hard part was that most of the kids that missed the deadlines were actually doing great. The final is 15% of the grade. A ‘0’ will bring down their grades for sure. Pretty sad.

I talked to the chair today on his behalf to see if I could lobby an exception. I was shut down like a Mormon child asking for an extra slice of ham. All the students could not offer up even a decent excuse. If they told me it was a web issue it would have been one thing. But it wasn’t – they just spaced. Oh well. Do that in the corporate world and find out what happens…

[legion]

One too many hits from the bong...

They've put off partying all semester and decided "what the hell"...

These are most likely closer to the real reasons.

Teaching college kids that they can slack off and weasle out of anything--even hard and fast deadlines--does them no good. Too bad their parents didn't teach them this lesson first.

[island911]

. . .as if they know that the final is too important for you to disregard, for their final grade. btst (been there, seen that)

It's a great way to buy time, so they can focus on their other finals. They have you pegged as giving a shiet. . . so it works.

[Tervuren]

Originally posted by LubeMaster77
Do that in the corporate world and find out what happens…

That is going to vary widely.

Most of what we do at work, can be put off without penalty - so long as you get it done. Everynow and then, you have "today" things, and those have a deadline that there is no question of meeting.

[M.D. Holloway]

Originally posted by island911
. . . They have you pegged as giving a shiet. . . so it works.

Well - I guess I am guilty as charged. I do find myself caring more than I want to.

I have this student - ROTC and works as well. A decent student - not the worst and not the best. Solid 2.0 from what I can gather. Did marginal on the final presentation. The paper was weak and presentation was 2nd worst in the class. I gave a 60% on it - didn't deserve and any more. It was worth 40% of the final grade. This student has a great work ethic yet has little to no chops. I know that this grade will hurt but I can't bump it - it wouldn't be fair or right.

I think about that.

[singpilot]

The State of Mexifornia would say... Go ahead and pass them anyway. No need for standards, they were probably poor or disadvantaged anyway. The illegals from TJ with no education are better at math and street smarts than most of the HS grads around here.

Let them get used to slacking off, it's good training for a brave new world.

[island911]

In my experience, I've been totally floored by the audacity of some student, with repect to getting a grade, or a third chance.

I came to the realization that my job was to tell the students where & when they screwed up. That part about "subject matter" -- well. . . rumor has it, that they learn from mistakes too.

[Joeaksa]

They knew the rules and a few did not give a damm. I did the same thing you did a while back and really enjoyed it but taking care of the exams and finals really was a pain at times. Enjoyed teaching but its not an easy job at times.

Agree with the rest. If they get used to being cut some slack then they will expect it in real life, which will not happen. Give them the grade they deserve and next semester hopefully they will do it right for a change.

[fintstone]

Why? Because they went to government schools for 12 years already.

[slodave]

I agree with Wayne.

[KFC911]

Yep, what Wayne said... I still would not cut them any slack whatsoever if you want to be fair to the rest of the class. I remember blowing off a couple of final exams (I generally made all 'A's), because 'I wanted to' and took a 'C' instead without complaint. FWIW, a 'C' is a killer to an almost perfect gpa, but 'thems the breaks'...

[David]

It happened with smart students 20 years ago when I was in college and it'll keep happening, unfortunately. As for college vs the real world. I found college more stressful. My last year of engineering school, I was getting regular headaches. I didn't get them before or after. When your future relies on a report being turned in on time or passing a test, it's pretty stressful. Now if I miss a deadline (which rarely happens) I get a slap on the wrist.

Funny story: One of college roommates missed a final during his fraternity hell week. His TA called a couple weeks later to apologize for losing his final and asked my roommate if he remembered what grade he got. My roommate said he got a B and TA said oh yeh that sounds right. Lucky bastard. BTW, that roommate runs a software company and is a millionaire.

[KFC911]

Originally posted by 125shifter
..... BTW, that roommate runs a software company and is a millionaire.

Yeah, but just think where he'd be today if he had taken that final exam

[Moses]

I don't think I ever took a final exam in my life that was only worth 15%. They were pretty lucky.

I can't imagine missing the final and still passing the class.

Things are pretty rigid in my world. You show up when you're supposed to and you better be ready to work. I don't want to sound too harsh, but the guy who "forgets" his final exam is unlikely to be someone I want to rely on in business.

[KFC911]

IIRC, there was some type of 'policy' that stated that the final exam couldn't drop your grade by more than two letters ... so of course I took advantage of the policy on a couple of occasions .... we had it easy back then...

ps: He didn't 'forget' imo....he 'blew it off'...ah, the indiscretions of youth...

[artplumber]

Book sense \=/ Common sense

[Shuie]

Are these the same students the messed up the research paper earlier in the semester. This is not the corporate world, its a school. Why does a school or a University have to be easy going or offer 2nd chances and/or exceptions for people who are unreliable and don't follow rules or meet expectations consistently?

[Rot 911]

Originally posted by Moses
I don't think I ever took a final exam in my life that was only worth 15%.

In law school all you have is final exams at the end of the semester. No intermediate exams at all. Flunk the exam, flunk the course.

[Superman]

Again, some folks are just not going to let their ignorance get in the way of their hatred.

I agree with Wayne. Heck one course's rules were as follows (and I'm not kidding......this is the beloved and legendary capstone Accounting class given to graduating Accounting seniors at Gonzaga University....whose students have something like an unbelievable 80% pass rate on the CPA exam):

*Course meets two hours in the morning, and two hours in the afternoon, on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

*Homework will be assigned at each class period, due at the next class period. Homework will comprise 50% of the grade. Homework will be collected once. No prior warning as to when it will be collected.

*The other 50% of the grade will be the final exam.

*When class starts, the door is closed. The door remains closed until class is adjourned.

*Students may not take notes during class (I'm not kidding).

*Students may not ask questions during class, except on the last day of class.

Again, this teacher, Gonzaga's dungareed, cigar-smoking legendary enigma, is the equivalent of John Houseman in The Paper Chase. A brutally tough but much beloved teacher and course.

College can be tougher than real life. Which is good, since real life delivers much more painful lessons. Here, the worst case scenario is that the student has to retake the class.

[TerryH]

Finals were 70% in some of my classes.

A California judge ruled recently that students didn't have to take exit exams out of high school. He said the tests were biased against poor and non-english speaking students. So the judge is saying poor=stupid? And as far as language.... well, I'm still wondering why I have to "press one for english or press two for spanish" when I call almost any company in the United States.