Flip THis House on A & E

[cantdrv55]

I know there are landlords on this board but what about RE flippers? Ever watch the show on TV? Do you buy RE at auctions too or do you get a foreclosures list and buy from the owners? What do you think of Trademark Properties' business model? Seems Richard Davis has many employees.

I always thought RE flippers are mainly DIY'ers. I guess he's gotten so successful that he needs the help. On one show, he was doing two projects at a time with 7 on the vine. Imagine making $40K profit per house in 14 days!

[Big Ed]

His day will come, when the 7 on the vine are worth less than he paid. Mark my words.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

The day we see the first unscrupulous residential real estate flipper bummin' for change down on the Santa Monica Prominade will be a good day for the rest of us.

I'm just waiting to hear of the first serious failure of a residence in which someone gets injured or killed due to "el cheapo" construction practices - I know there have to be literally millions of "time bombs" out there with problems just waiting to happen due to faulty framing, wiring, poor concrete mix, or any one of a zillion potential problems. This kind of crap is promulgated by EXACTLY these types of "flippers" and executed by one or more of the thousands of fly-by-night contractors eager to do the work. It's a real problem. Inspectors are overworked and a LOT of stuff gets pulled over on them.

I'm actually checking into what it takes to get on a couple of lawyers' lists as an expert witness, 'cause I'm banking on there being a CRAPLOAD of poor-construction-related lawsuits in the coming years directly related to the "flip it" mentality that's been such a part of the RE market lately. . .

If the big 8.0 earthquake hit tomorrow, I'd feel about 1000x safer in a 30-year-old highrise than I would in a five-year-old two-story home. I see some downright scary stuff driving around at various residential sites. . .

[techweenie]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
I know there have to be literally millions of "time bombs" out there with problems just waiting to happen due to faulty framing, wiring, poor concrete mix, or any one of a zillion potential problems. This kind of crap is promulgated by EXACTLY these types of "flippers" and executed by one or more of the thousands of fly-by-night contractors eager to do the work. It's a real problem. Inspectors are overworked and a LOT of stuff gets pulled over on them.

I'm actually checking into what it takes to get on a couple of lawyers' lists as an expert witness, 'cause I'm banking on there being a CRAPLOAD of poor-construction-related lawsuits in the coming years directly related to the "flip it" mentality that's been such a part of the RE market lately. . .

If the big 8.0 earthquake hit tomorrow, I'd feel about 1000x safer in a 30-year-old highrise than I would in a five-year-old two-story home. I see some downright scary stuff driving around at various residential sites. . .

I think you're on to something. You'll notice a lot of the 'flip' shows on TV make no mention of building permits. If you watch Property Ladder, you see a lot of work done by rank amateurs -- people who don't know a supporting wall from a crown molding.

[on-ramp]

first thing to ask when buying a house : " was this house flipped?"

[GDSOB]

Originally posted by on-ramp
first thing to ask when buying a house : " was this house flipped?"

Look in the tax records. Beware if you see big changes in selling price in a matter of months...weeks for that matter.

[legion]

A guy down the street from me bought a house for 129K, painted a few rooms, and is now trying to resell for 145k two months later.

I expect the house to sit on the market until he lowers the price to 129k.

As they say...if it doesn't play in Peoria (which is 45 miles away)...

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
The day we see the first unscrupulous residential real estate flipper bummin' for change down on the Santa Monica Prominade will be a good day for the rest of us.

I'm just waiting to hear of the first serious failure of a residence in which someone gets injured or killed due to "el cheapo" construction practices - I know there have to be literally millions of "time bombs" out there with problems just waiting to happen due to faulty framing, wiring, poor concrete mix, or any one of a zillion potential problems. This kind of crap is promulgated by EXACTLY these types of "flippers" and executed by one or more of the thousands of fly-by-night contractors eager to do the work. It's a real problem. Inspectors are overworked and a LOT of stuff gets pulled over on them.

I'm actually checking into what it takes to get on a couple of lawyers' lists as an expert witness, 'cause I'm banking on there being a CRAPLOAD of poor-construction-related lawsuits in the coming years directly related to the "flip it" mentality that's been such a part of the RE market lately. . .

If the big 8.0 earthquake hit tomorrow, I'd feel about 1000x safer in a 30-year-old highrise than I would in a five-year-old two-story home. I see some downright scary stuff driving around at various residential sites. . .

100% agreed. Also applies to the many misguided DIY homeowners, that think Lowes can provide them proper advice to build their own garage or tile their kitchen. Similar care seems to go into many cheaper new homes, I'll be interested to see what they look like in 30 years. When we buy again, I won't look at anything newer than '70 or so, the build quality is so much better.

[turbo6bar]

Originally posted by legion
A guy down the street from me bought a house for 129K, painted a few rooms, and is now trying to resell for 145k two months later.

Ummm, where's the profit? Answer: There is no profit here. He will likely show a loss.

[Eric 951]

I like Flip This House--well mostly because of Ginger--that drawl is sexy as all get-out. However, their schedules are freakin' crazy--they must be on 30-day high-interest notes, or otherwise there is no way they would just bust them out like they do--you can't get a quality job working a straight 7-10 week. I would be real interested to see how the homes "held-up" on a follow-up type show.
As Wayne mentioned I see the same lack of quality in the McMansions that are proliferating everywhere. These builders swoop in put up a development in 6 months time, and are often at full-capcaity within a year. Then about 6 mos after that, I start to see "for sale" signs re-appearing. A quick drive through some of the local developments which were pushing homes "In the low 300s"--per the sign at the model--have developed the following within 2 years of completion--warped vinyl siding, loose sofitts, loose corner trim, peeled paint/flaking on all of the "decorative" wood trim pieces--which is just pressed fiberboard painted white--lifted shingles, and driveway cracking. The quality is just not there.

[JavaBrewer]

Maybe that's true outside of Cali but my parent's home in Goleta was built in the 60's and needed to be completely redone. Roof, stucco, and all load bearing walls were replaced. Would have been cheaper to bulldoze and start new but the county restrictions were too prohibitive.

[JavaBrewer]

Oh and I have NEVER seen a concrete patio or driveway that didn't have cracks. My friend owns a landscaping Co. and said that even big $$ (like $1+M) landscape jobs in Rancho Santa Fe all developed cracks. Again that's here in Cali.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

With proper and judicious use of reinforcing and expansion joints, concrete should never crack.

Edit: I should add with the exception of deliberately introduced control joints.

[dad911]

Those of you that think 70's construction is better are kidding yourselves. In the 70's 2x8 floor joists were common, 2x6 ceiling joists and rafters, 6" & 8" unreinforced (and hollow) cinder block foundations, no stone under slabs, No re-bar in slabs, sills not pressure treated.....the list goes on. And before the 70's? with lead paint and asbestos, I wouldn't touch a house that old.

The construction codes today are much more stringent, and more evenly enforced. I can't speak for the rest of the country, but up until 10 years ago, some areas of NJ and many areas of PA had no inspectors nor inspections.

[dad911]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
With proper and judicious use of reinforcing and expansion joints, concrete should never crack.

Edit: I should add with the exception of deliberately introduced control joints.

I suppose if you have a control & expension joint every square foot. Otherwise, no way to predict & control where concrete will crack.

[JavaBrewer]

Pave stones are a great alternative to concrete. I demo'd my brand new (builder installed) concrete driveway and replaced with pavers. My entire backyard hardscape is also paver. Not a single crack

[nota]

well after hurricane ANDREW in 1992 you could tell the older homes from the newer eazy the old stuff was in one peice
and the newer ones were rubble,
even in the worst hit areas, the old the house the better chance
it was less damaged

my 1940 build house had 4x10 rafters with nailed real wood strip roof those allmost never failed unlike
the new plywood type that just blew off others roofs built with 2 by frames

I will never even look at new construction here the older home are way better built

union vs 3th world labor also is a BIG factor in quality
and they just donot build them like they use to

[Moneyguy1]

I would posit that a 2 x 8 from 40+ years ago is stronger than the "whitewood" 2 x 10s of today.

I advocate screws for framing rather than nails. No squeaks, no pulls, no pops. The added quality is well worth the added cost.

I agree on the concrete problems, but add that those increase with temperature extremes. I,too, prefer pavers.

I have seen too manyof these "flipped" houses and many of them are just lipstick on a pig.

[gr8fl4porsche]

You can still get old world craftsmanship these days if you are willing to pay for it. The problem is the general population wants the least expensive large house they can buy. They pay an average price and expect premium quality. Codes and inspections only yield minimum standards. The average worker on a site only does average work.

Believe me, there are excellent contractors out there who will do remarkable work for you - if you are willing to pay for the hours that it takes to reach perfection.

I do not agree that quality in new houses has gone down - if anything, the methods today are far superior to yesterday. The problem lies in cheap materials combined with the need to keep costs, markup and sales price to a low but reasonable level to sell in quantity (what I call the Walmart business model).

If you want a well-built home, start with concrete and steel then start adding insulated prefab wall panels and roof.

[Hetmann]

There were shoddy home built in the past as well. New materials and methods if properly installed should yield a better product. My house is a 1951 ranch and the craftsmanship is apparent when I tear things open to remodel. I try to do everything up to that standard. I don't see a profit motivated flipper doing that.

I don't know about other areas, but around here the home is worth much less than the location. I don't think a flipper is economically feasible unless you get a great lot, double the square footage of the house, upgrade the curb appeal and occupy it as a primary residence for at least 2 years.