Why Are Some Good Students So......Stupid?

[M.D. Holloway]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
...Deadlines are missed all the time - and goal posts are continually moved and readjusted....-Wayne

In certain positions and in certain companies I would agree. In the field we dance in and the competition we face, we have to be spot-on and deliver always or we look like shmucks. There is little room for missed commitments.

When it comes to what we do, our reputation is tested constantly. At some point we may have the brand recognition that would generate forgiveness but that is a ways off. I just hope we always have this stress. It has made us the best.

[Hugh R]

Originally posted by TerryH
Finals were 70% in some of my classes.

A California judge ruled recently that students didn't have to take exit exams out of high school. He said the tests were biased against poor and non-english speaking students. So the judge is saying poor=stupid? And as far as language.... well, I'm still wondering why I have to "press one for english or press two for spanish" when I call almost any company in the United States.

Actually the judge on this case is going to make his ruling this Friday. What he's going to be ruling on is not whether the test should be thrown out for good, but whether this years seniors who couldn't pass the test should be given diplomas since its the first mandatory year requiring students to pass the test in order to get their diploma, not future years.

But I agree with you, 100% especially since my son, in his words "easily" passed it in the 10th grade and doesn't have to take it again.

[turbo6bar]

I equate "blowing off your finals" with complacency and mediocrity, and neither is acceptable in real life, personal or professional.

[KFC911]

College (although it was pretty hard to graduate with honors), was about as far removed from 'real life' that I have ever experienced. In my case, I don't regret it one bit (re: 'blowing off a final') for what I then thought (at the age of 20) was a 'once in a lifetime experience'... Do I regret missing a bs philosophy final, for a trip that I still vividly remember 25 years later...not hardly. I think some of you have forgotten what it's like to be young and immature (like I certainly was at that age). If you never blew off a class for a chick, then all I can say is 'damn, you missed out' . I've since been pretty successful, but I've never forgotten to have fun along the way....to each their own....

ps: I still maintain that the student who missed the final should not be cut any slack however...

[turbo6bar]

Blowing off a class isn't quite the same as blowing off a final.

[KFC911]

Originally posted by turbo6bar
Blowing off a class isn't quite the same as blowing off a final.

To a real hard a$$ it would be...it's just a matter of degree and perspective, so where do you draw the line? And if you think that 'complacency and mediocrity' have no place in the 'real world', then I take it you've never spent a significant amount of time in 'corporate america' . I'm no slacker, but did I do some stupid stuff in my youth? I'll have to plead the fifth on that one....

[epbrown]

Originally posted by turbo6bar
I equate "blowing off your finals" with complacency and mediocrity, and neither is acceptable in real life, personal or professional.

Ditto. I work in Retail Banking, in a seriously deadline-dependent area. When my team misses a deadline, it creates a serious ****storm since everyone and his mother will be calling to ask what happened to their account balance. Yet my employees routinely act shocked when they're reprimanded for impacting that deadline, in spite of them knowing that such errors could cost the bank more than we pay them in a year. People are entering the business world with the idea that they'll never be held responsible to doing their jobs or for screwing up.

[KFC911]

I spent a significant portion of my career working for two of the largest banking corporations in the US, always with exemplary reviews, promotions, and compensation (for banks). I understand where you're coming from about 'meeting deadlines' (i.e. missing a deadline when transferring say $50-$100 BILLION around can lose serious $ (in interest alone) in just a matter of minutes...WAY more than most of us make in a year). It still boggles my mind at the amount of 'complacency and mediocrity' that existed at both corporations. I never said it was OK (I strive to be a perfectionist when I do something)...just that it exists. FWIW, it typically wasn't the people in the trenches that were mediocre, it was the decision makers who were to busy attempting to climb the corporate ladder (internal politics, covering their butts, attending bs meetings, etc.) that were typically lacking. It was also my experience that the larger a corporation grew, the worse it became. I think our government bureaucracy has become the epitome of this phenominum. Just my .02 based upon my personal experiences of 'how it was'.... I don't miss it one bit !

[1fastredsc]

I think i'm like the student you mentioned, maybe not as smart, but i do really well in all my classes then do something stupid on the final. From experience i think it comes from busting my a$$ during the semester then just burning out towards the end. To give you an example, one of our harder coarses in this dept is dynamics, yet i've had nothing but A's all semester. The professor was impressed enough to suggest that i go to graduate school and get into solid mechanics. Then on the final, three decent sized problems, and on one problem for some stupid reason, the radius of gyration is given, and instead of using the mass times k sub g squared, i stuck a 1/2 in front of it for no good reason. For some reason it made sense at the time, and as i'm leaving the exam it hit me and i feel like a moron. This should have been trivial and yet i screwed it up.
And i've done things similar in other classes throughout my college career so i can kind of sympathize with the student in question.

[jyl]

Coming in late.

Lube, giving that student the lousy final grade he deserves will teach him more than if he'd taken the test and earned an A in your class.

[KFC911]

Originally posted by jyl
Coming in late.

Lube, giving that student the lousy final grade he deserves will teach him more than if he'd taken the test and earned an A in your class.

I agree 100% with that!

[M.D. Holloway]

Originally posted by jyl
Coming in late.

Lube, giving that student the lousy final grade he deserves will teach him more than if he'd taken the test and earned an A in your class.

And he is a kid that is able to test out of several classes. He did great in my class (up until the final) which he couldn't test out of. I gotta (maybe wanna) believe that he will learn a life lesson and make him better.

Or as my ol'Man would say "he just paid tuition to the school of hard knocks..."

[nine_one_4]

Sounds like you're a good teacher (because you care). What subject do you teach?

[M.D. Holloway]

I teach a couple classes that are required for engineering and science majors (as well as math majors) - Professional Presentations and Technical Writing. I wish I took the course in college. Heck, I wish I took it when I first started working. It would have saved me years of trial and error.

I didn’t design the course. There are certain things I would do differently. For the most part it is a good class. Most all of the students say it is the toughest class they take (that includes P-chem, daffy Q’s and thermal as well as mechanics) because it is really different than anything they are comfortable with.

It would actually be easier for non-science students to do well in this course. It seems that most of the good science and engineering students have zero social skills and public presentation chops. The ones that get past their fears of public speaking and apply just a few of the speaking techniques as well as the presentation organization concepts actually do really well. Imagine an engineer or scientist that could write coherently and speak well in a professional, relaxed manner. Rare as naturally violet eyes!

Fortunately, if someone has serious stage fright it will have very little impact on the final grade. Much more goes into it than just being able to get up in front of a crowd and pitching...

[1fastredsc]

Originally posted by LubeMaster77
Professional Presentations and Technical Writing.

Oh man, your teaching the classes i hate. I think i see why your student "forgot" the final.

[URY914]

My wife, who did not attend college, works at a large state univerity here in Tampa. She is an hourly paid staff member and she deals with Master and PHD degree seeking students daily. The stories she tells me of lame-brain students are never ending. They miss tests, they miss class, they lose books, and some can not carry on a conversation to even explain what the problem may be. And it doesn't help that a pretty good percentage of the professors are in the same boat.

[pmajka]

I think all of you are being too hard on those students...I am at work now and completely spacing out. I like to hang on a site with the name Pelican in it.



Remember, dont pass the Bong till after work is over!

[M.D. Holloway]

One thing is certain - these studenst do have a bunch of stuff going on. Most are taking at least 5 classes, 75% are in internships, and 25% are working on senior projects all the while trying to figuer a plan to get their fingers stinky which is a mighty tall order for an engineering geek!