are humans supposed to be monogamous.

[slakjaw]

Last night I over heard a conversation. The people were talking about the % of spouses who cheat. They were talking about like 60% or something like that.

Anyway,

This got me to thinking, In nature monogamous animals do not cheat. If I understand this correctly "cheating" is a purely human trait.

If you put religion and what your parents taught you aside for a second. I am very curious, what would science or biology tell us about humans and monogamous relationships.

I almost did not post this because I am sure to get flamed pretty hard. But I know there are some quite smart PPOT'ers that could shed some light on this.

Kyle

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by slakjaw

This got me to thinking, In nature monogamous animals do not cheat. If I understand this correctly "cheating" is a purely human trait.

Most animals have more than one partner. I'm not sure I get the point of this.

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by slakjaw
. I am very curious, what would science or biology tell us about humans and monogamous relationships.

If you dream about it it's a fantasy. If it's a fantasy you want to expand on it or in this case in it.

[ChrisBennet]

The mating behavior of animals is amoral and of no relevance to (moral) human mating behavior. You may find sentimental similarities between animals and human behavior (mating for life touches our heart strings for example) but you won't find moral relevance.

In nature, animals tend to be monogamous if it will increase the chances of their DNA being passed on (historically and statistically speaking). For example, in the case of animals that that have "expensive to to raise" young, sticking around to raise them may increase the chances of the father's genes being passed on more than spreading his genes among multiple females.

In the case of humans, a single female can raise a child to reproductive age by herself so the "natural" thing would be to impregnate as many females as possible.

-Chris

P.S. Isn't this sort of thing common knowledge?

[cool_chick]

I for one find it to be a very interesting question and have often pondered it......

Slakjaw is asking, is it biology that drives people to cheat, is the human species (on a biological level) not meant to spend their lives with only one human on a sexual level?

There are certain birds that are monagamous, they mate for life, and if their partner dies, the surviving "spouse" will never mate or reproduce again.

The question becomes: Are monagomous relationships against innate human behavior?

To me, it's a very interesting topic. I do hope others offer their thoughts on this topic......

[cool_chick]

Chris, no it is not "common knowledge"....it is still a mystery to experts, and what you state is theoretical, and you will find others will not agree to your "common knowledge."

For one, I don't agree with your moral/amoral opinion.

And there are species of females who get pregnant, then kill the male as they no longer need him (thus, can raise by themselves)......

[dean]

I think men are supposed to have as many children with many women and women are supposed to have many children with one man. That is my story and I am stickin to it

[speeder]

There are several, sometimes competing things that are "human nature". It is definitely HN for males to hunt for various things, including female companionship/love/sex, and it is definitely HN for men to lose interest, (slightly or much more), once the "prey" has been caught.

It is also HN for women to hunt for the best male available to them, but they tend to not be so obsessed w/ the hunt and more interested in hanging on to what they've bagged if it's good. These distinctions can get blurred because both genders are vulnerable to falling in love, in which all bets are off w/ the hunting thing. Both men and women get bored in relationships and stray.

The biggest difference, IMO, is the "thrill of the hunt" deal for men, and it is worse for some men than others. Some have no problem being faithful forever, and some can be in a relationship or married to the love of their life and still need to hunt. Once we get what we want, the passion dies down a little no matter how attractive she is. Women seem to get more attached, not less, once the man has been bagged/caught.

[Dantilla]

For myself, I won't cheat. Never.

I don't worry about STD's.
I don't worry about someone demanding a paternity test.

I've got a wonderful wife. If she ever leaves me, I'm going with her!

[masraum]

I think there are two main ways for propogation of the species.

1 Lots of partners, lots of babies, most will probably die, but some enough should live to make more

2 One partner, spend lots of time raising/rearing the young to make sure that a much higher percentage of the young make it to breeding age.

I think that humans are more likely to be #2, but then with life expectancys of what, 60-70, could/would we potentially have 2 or 3 mates or just the one and still make #2 work?

[ChrisBennet]

Originally posted by cool_chick
Chris, no it is not "common knowledge"....it is still a mystery to experts, and what you state is theoretical, and you will find others will not agree to your "common knowledge."

For one, I don't agree with your moral/amoral opinion.

And there are species of females who get pregnant, then kill the male as they no longer need him (thus, can raise by themselves)......

I was not aware that this was a mystery to experts, maybe I need to get out more? Mating habits are an interesting topic worthy of study but I doubt there is an "expert" anywhere that would deny that the goal of all reproductive behaviors is to perpetuate an the individual's DNA. The process of natural selection (which mating habits and such are part of) isn't disputed to my knowledge.

Animals do not have "morals", thus they are amoral.
For example, my cat kills things mice and doesn't eat them. Cat society doesn't have any mores that would deem this behavior good or bad, it is just nature. Humans can project their own moral judgments onto animal behavior i.e. "killer sharks are bad", "monogamous swans are romantic" but they aren't animal morals.

The animal kingdom is replete with many reproductive strategies. Some animals use more than one.

-Chris

[Moses]

I've spent a great deal of my adult life studying these issues. ChrisBennet has it exactly right. Monogamous species are in fact the exception rather than the rule, and monogamy is only practiced when it benefits surviveability of the species.

Is monogamy "natural" for humans? Of course not. We evolved into this efficient, aggressive, dominant species because alpha males have enjoyed greater reproductive success than their more timid counterparts.

Is monogamy relevant to modern life? Absolutely! In order to live in an organized society we must learn to subjugate and repress many primitive instincts that were critical to our survival just a few hundred thousand years ago. Hyper aggression and a fast-twitch violence response might have kept your cave full of meat and intruders at bay, but the same responses during rush hour in Los Angeles will get you arrested.

Just because the genesis of the urge is "natural" does not imply that it is appropriate or excusable. In many ways, the ability to control the darker angels of our instincts is critical to our success.

Humans are intelligent, inventive, sentimental, curious, lustful, violent and dangerous. At some point, all of these traits have been critical to our survival.

Recommended reading;

[RickM]

A few of my thoughts:

- Men have a "roving eye" for a reason. It's HN. In other words, instinctive. Wether one acts on their drive is another thing. (This could easily agued. One example might be the fact that we're conditioned to have one mate, therefore, we want what we "can't" have.)

- What is moral in one culture is not so in others. Polygamy is a good example and practiced "moraly" in other parts of the world.

- In the animal world (for the most part) a female will hold out for the most suitable male(s)....as in multiple litters) to impregnate them, while males look to spread their seed to as many females as possible. (This can be a mixed bag as in some species a female will mate with many males to up the chances of being impregnated a single time)

- All animals have the drive to continue their lineage....and just like animals tend to be physically unique in many ways their techniques for species preservation are as well.

So in conclusion..........it's tough to say.

[cool_chick]

Originally posted by ChrisBennet
I was not aware that this was a mystery to experts, maybe I need to get out more? Mating habits are an interesting topic worthy of study but I doubt there is an "expert" anywhere that would deny that the goal of all reproductive behaviors is to perpetuate an the individual's DNA. The process of natural selection (which mating habits and such are part of) isn't disputed to my knowledge.

Animals do not have "morals", thus they are amoral.
For example, my cat kills things mice and doesn't eat them. Cat society doesn't have any mores that would deem this behavior good or bad, it is just nature. Humans can project their own moral judgments onto animal behavior i.e. "killer sharks are bad", "monogamous swans are romantic" but they aren't animal morals.

The animal kingdom is replete with many reproductive strategies. Some animals use more than one.

-Chris

Humans kill, but don't eat what they kill as well.....

My dog never had an interest in killing any living thing.....yes...it's true....she's 9 1/2 now, and she never wanted to kill a living thing.....

I don't believe you are any more or less moral than other species....I'm sorry.....

[M.D. Holloway]

I'm not convinced that humans should even 'be' - we sure do seem rather strange in comparison and are doing a heck of a number on our home and ourselves. Screwing around is pretty lite compared to about 1835 other things people seem to do toeach other and themselves...

[dean]

My dog Pumpernickle came out of the womb wanting to kill everything in site. It didn't matter what it was. Crickets, moles, squirles, chipmucks, grizzley bears. We did train her not to kill kids and grizzley bears but she isn't happy about it.

I bet the Vegas gay magician Roy trained his cat not to kill people. Maybe he didn't do a very good job.

Men are like oak trees. The farther our acorns go, the better the planet.

[nostatic]

is there an offer on the table here?

[JavaBrewer]

I think 75% of married men would cheat on their wife if given the chance, higher if guaranteed that the wife would not find out. Flip side I'd say 60% of women would cheat if the hubby didn't have a clue. Biologically the odds are stacked against us...

[red-beard]

I think Moses it right on. Our society has built up the way it was to make it as sucessful as possible. We have many many instincts built in to us. For guys it's not just the killer instincts, it is also the "f" any and all females in sight. The instinct hasn't changed, but we control these urges. And as we get older, usually we are less swayed by the urges.

In places where the societal norms are not imposed, you can see the results. Violence is up, as it a complete lack of manogomy.

What is correct?

Now I'll throw the last peice in here. Adultry is, from the old testament, having sex with some elses wife. Having sex with an un-married female, was not adultry. Also, the bible teaches us that if our wife cannot have children, then we should take a concubine and continue our line...

I'm still having a bit of trouble convincing my wife about the concubine part...

[Nathans_Dad]

Human monogamy and other "morals" are artificial things we placed onto ourselves (or many believe God placed them on us, but that is another thread).

As a pure primal instinct to mate, animals in general will mate with as many others as they can to try and ensure their genes get passed on. True monogamy in the animal world is pretty rare.

So, to the question. Yes, humans should be monogamous. Not because it is what is right for the primal animal part of us, but because it is what is right for our society and our morality. That's what separates humans from other animals, the ability to discern right and wrong and suppress our animal instincts based on that morality.

There are lots of things that animals do that humans don't. Animals eat their own poo. Animals mate with multiple partners. Animals eat their young. Just because something is "natural" doesn't mean it is right or in the best interests of the species.