an open letter to OT

[Halm]

+1 Todd. Thank you.

[Mulhollanddose]

This thread is nothing more than a complaint against those who defend America and her President during wartime...nothing more.

[kaisen]

Censorship sucks.
If you don't like it, don't read it, or certainly don't reply to it.
Automotive, economics, technical, and business stuff appeal to me
Political and religious debate, not so much. I just don't open those.

I, for one, learn A LOT on the OT forum. Differing positions and opinions help me learn more than I would if we were all of the same cloth. Two biases generally give you BOTH SIDES of any given topic. Better than the media, I say.

Keep it open and free-flowing ..... but eliminate the personal attacks and unnecessary foul language.

E

[tabs]

PBBBTTT MULLL.....I think GW is a Good President in spite of everything...and I generally just can't stand the whining Liberals who would burn their own house down to get their way...

[Icemaster]

Funny,

If ever there was a thread that proved beyond argument the point of the original post, this is it.

[cegerer]

Here's an interesting link from the Wayback Machine dated early 2004. Note the varied and interesting OT post topics - lots of car-related stuff. The political crap was just starting to take hold back then (only TWO Bush-bashing threads ) How things change.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040215093211/http://forums.pelicanparts.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=31

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by kaisen
Keep it open and free-flowing ..... but eliminate the personal attacks and unnecessary foul language.

E

Agreed. If you pay attention you will see how I (given I am surely a target of this thread) NEVER engage in personal attacks. They are regularly hurled at me but I seldom respond. I won't say never, because I would lie, but I let 95% of the slanders and insults roll right off my back.

Given the above is true, I don't mind. My skin is thick and I would still bend over backwards (in a hetero way) for the most venomous lefty here on board...I doubt highly the same could be said if I were in trouble.

I get bent at liberals attacking our soldiers and their President, therefore the morale of the troops, when they are in harm's way...This encourages the enemy and creates domestic intranquility...This pisses me off and I WILL let you know it does...I will NOT stand idly by as the Democrat vietnamize Iraq.

[Moneyguy1]

Even when there is an attempt by a moderator to get some meaningful dialog, the worst trolls trot out their political agenda and blame things on others and question motives.

Why?

I enjoy an exchange of divergent views. I do not enjoy simple casting of blame on others by those with a penchant of showing "rightous indignation" who cannot or will not admit their own culpability or faults.

I also object to "garbage dumping", defined as going way back, finding an obscure posting and then accusing the provious poster with "Well, back then you said...." It is non productive and irrelevant in most cases.

Let's exchange ideas rather than insults for a change. With the insults, no one's mind is changed, and in fact escalation sets in.

[fintstone]

The worst is when you make a post about a serious issue...and then, some pompous ass who disagrees with you (and has no reasonable argument) attempts to psychoanalyze you and never even addresses the issue...because obviously you could not be in your right mind if you do not agree with them.

[tabs]

I mostly agree with Fint..but still think he is a DOD Whack job...

[tabs]

Originally posted by Mulhollanddose
Agreed. If you pay attention you will see how I (given I am surely a target of this thread) NEVER engage in personal attacks. They are regularly hurled at me but I seldom respond. I won't say never, because I would lie, but I let 95% of the slanders and insults roll right off my back.

Given the above is true, I don't mind. My skin is thick and I would still bend over backwards (in a hetero way) for the most venomous lefty here on board...I doubt highly the same could be said if I were in trouble.

I get bent at liberals attacking our soldiers and their President, therefore the morale of the troops, when they are in harm's way...This encourages the enemy and creates domestic intranquility...This pisses me off and I WILL let you know it does...I will NOT stand idly by as the Democrat vietnamize Iraq.

I have heard this speech before.....it was in the movie Animal House...

[Grady Clay]

The vitriol is exactly why I rarely post here or even bother to read most threads. I have posted OT on prostate cancer, something I am knowledgeable about, an intriguing starter about WWII that had some good discussion, one about $5/day food planning and few others. I’ll guess 10 out of 4200 posts - ~0.2%.

I enjoy a good argument. I’m usually willing to argue either side. The argument doesn’t have to follow my personal views and opinions. I can separate them. The argument certainly doesn’t have to sink to the levels here. A good argument can stand on its own.

I agree, enforce the rules.

Many have posted about the 911Technical Forum’s wonderful politeness. Why can’t that be true of OT? If someone wants rancor, there are plenty of sites on the internet to choose from.

Best,
Grady

[speeder]

Originally posted by cegerer
Here's an interesting link from the Wayback Machine dated early 2004. Note the varied and interesting OT post topics - lots of car-related stuff. The political crap was just starting to take hold back then (only TWO Bush-bashing threads ) How things change.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040215093211/http://forums.pelicanparts.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=31

Hey Curt, How'd you do that? There are some specific dates that I would like to retrieve. FWIW, the level of civility/rancor reflected on this board mirrors the general tone of the country and the world. America has never been more divided along political lines than it is under the present "leadership", an AP article today states that the division exceeds the wordt periods of the Viet Nam war. Unbelievable.

The worst weeks before this on the board were immediately after 9/11/01 when emotions were at a boil and facts were scarce, and after Reagan's death which was a real camp-splitter on a national level. This week is about the bleakest one in my lifetime for anyone who values peace and diplomacy over short-sighted wars. Face it, this will go down as one cruel summer.

[fintstone]

Originally posted by speeder
... America has never been more divided along political lines than it is under the present "leadership", an AP article today states that the division exceeds the wordt periods of the Viet Nam war. Unbelievable. ...

I agree. It is "unbelievable." It is a battle between a leadership that is steadfast in principle and a group that will say or do anything to oppose them. Clearly the Anti-American crowd has been so successful because they have refined the techniques it developed during the Vietnam war They make great use of the internet, practically own the media.and have the backing of almost an entire major political party..

[bryanthompson]

Originally posted by tabs
I have heard this speech before.....it was in the movie Animal House...

D-Day: War's over, man. Wormer dropped the big one.
Bluto: Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Otter: Germans?
Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.
Bluto: And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets tough...
[thinks hard]
Bluto: the tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go!
[runs out, alone; then returns]
Bluto: What the fück happened to the Delta I used to know? Where's the spirit? Where's the guts, huh? "Ooh, we're afraid to go with you Bluto, we might get in trouble." Well just kiss my ass from now on! Not me! I'm not gonna take this. Wormer, he's a dead man! Marmalard, dead! Niedermeyer...
Otter: Dead! Bluto's right. Psychotic, but absolutely right. We gotta take these bastards. Now we could do it with conventional weapons that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part.
Bluto: We're just the guys to do it.
D-Day: Let's do it.
Bluto: LET'S DO IT!

[tabs]

Bryan it was like the one Otter gave before the Frat House Disciplinary Council ....Where not going to stand here and let you bash America....

[john70t]

quote:"it is become a cottage industry, hate, the likes that we have never been guilty of in the conservative movement." -ummm, Clinton?

The Hutu Bushies watch for the signal to start, and the rest of the world vultures stare. Even Rome fell, and not by chance..

[tabs]

Speeder it isn't the"PRESENT LEADERSHIP" that is being divisive... its the Political Party that is outa power...the Democrats... wanta be back in the Trough of the Public Treasury at any cost. The Dems are criticizing the Admin for everything they do, without realizing they are lighting their own house on fire.

If U want a shot at the glass of reality...We have a bureaucracy that is mired in proceedure as how to wage a war...this is all fine and good for a conventional war with two powers squaring off in the ring of battle..but we are trying to use a rigid Bureaucractic culture to combat an Amorphic Foe ...the two systems are athema to each other...

The world is beocming more chaotic by the moment ...but remember what I said your damed if you do and damed if you don't in the Middle East...there is no right course of action...the place has ALWAYS been a can of worms that every previous administration has avoided dealing with like the plague. Now Bush is taking the bull by the horns and trying to wrestle with it, to make some kind of sense out of it to protect the SUV Standard of Living in the USA.

[tabs]

As a Burteaucrat one has to fill out the forms in triplicate, while your doing that Abdul el Kabomb has slipped by U carrying a thermo Nucklear device...

[tabs]

Both political factions are talking over each other now, and neither is listening nor paying attention to the damage being done. Our enemies and allies are beoccming aware that we are becoming impotent because of the divisivness.

If this continues the next President maybe an Isolationist, and the world will truly devolve into chaos without the biggest boy on the block bringing some order or leadership to the world. It may also happen that to save the stability of the US economic system..global economy...for the GOOD of us ALL... a Dicatorship will be established...on a presumably temporary basis....simply said once that happens there is NO GOING BACK...so boyz and girls keep it up....and reap the whirlwind..