Dad, Why Can't They Change What They Believe?

M.D. Holloway · 08-02-2006, 02:53 PM

A few days ago our Son and I were watching the news. Of course the war with Israel and Lebanon was the main focus. Here was the conversation:

“Why are they so mad at each other Dad?”

“Well, some of it has to do with what they believe and some has to do with land – they both think that it’s theirs.”

“Why don’t they just share it?”

“It’s against what they believe.”

“Why don’t they just change what they believe that way people won’t get killed?”

I am sure the situation is much more complicated but really….its not.

kaisen · 08-02-2006, 02:54 PM

Kids are pretty smart

David · David's Garage

I think the vast majority of people believe what they grew up believing, i.e. what their parents believe.

That's one reason it's hard for me to believe. Why is what my parents believe better than what someone else's parents believe?

M.D. Holloway · 08-02-2006, 03:11 PM

I think beliefs can change, if they couldn't or didn't we would not see all the various religions that we do.

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

The problem is religion (big surprise). God supposedly tells group "A" they're entitled to the land regardless of what group "B" (and their gods, presumably) think.

Maybe you should tell your son "God says I now own your favorite toy" and take it from him. When he gets upset about it, you can say, "see, it's pretty much like that, just over land instead of toys".

M.D. Holloway · 08-02-2006, 04:05 PM

yup

Nathans_Dad · Nathans_Dad's Garage

Yeesh P-o-P, do you blame everything bad in the world on religion?

The problem isn't religion itself. The problem is people using religion to further their own desire for power and territory.

cool_chick · 08-03-2006, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nathans_Dad
Yeesh P-o-P, do you blame everything bad in the world on religion?

The problem isn't religion itself. The problem is people using religion to further their own desire for power and territory.

OHMIGOD

FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!

YES!!!!!

onewhippedpuppy · 08-03-2006, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nathans_Dad
Yeesh P-o-P, do you blame everything bad in the world on religion?

The problem isn't religion itself. The problem is people using religion to further their own desire for power and territory.

We have a winner! What always baffles me is how those people buy that BS. "We are a religion of peace, now go kill some infidels!" ****** morons. If I was asked to kill in the name of my religion or God, the only response they would get is me laughing my way out the door. Unfortunately it would appear that most radical muslims don't share my opinion.

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

When HASN'T religion been used to further peoples' desire for power or territory?

Oh, that's right. . . never.

"Personalized" religious beliefs that don't involve secular agendas or using one's beliefs as a cudgel against non-believers is commonly known as "spirituality" - and this I have no issue or problem with whatsoever.

To put it more simply - "wherever two or more of you are gathered in my name, there is evil". On a personal level, spirituality is uplifting and benign. When it starts involving groups, it introduces corruption, manipulation, alternate agendas, etc. Pretty good evidence that the whole thing was made up by men in the first place if you ask me. . .

jluetjen · jluetjen's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by LubeMaster77
A few days ago our Son and I were watching the news. Of course the war with Israel and Lebanon was the main focus. Here was the conversation:

“Why are they so mad at each other Dad?”

“Well, some of it has to do with what they believe and some has to do with land – they both think that it’s theirs.”

“Why don’t they just share it?”

“It’s against what they believe.”

“Why don’t they just change what they believe that way people won’t get killed?”

I am sure the situation is much more complicated but really….its not.

Be sure to remind your son of his wisdom the next time he and his sibling/classmate/etc. are fighting over the same toy, or how to play a game. It's really got nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with human nature. If we weren't fighting over religion, we'd find something else to fight over.

on-ramp · 08-03-2006, 06:22 AM

it's not always about religion, sometimes it's about Revenge.

You kill someone's family... with no laws, no government, no way to get justice, he takes matters into his own hands.
that's how terrorists are born, one way at least.

contrary to what bush would have you believe, terrorists are not insane crazy people that kill others indiscriminately for no reason. they have their motives. under similar circumstances, you might do the same thing.

bryanthompson · bryanthompson's Garage

Having motives doesn't make someone less crazy, it just means they have crazy motives. How people in our country can identify with and justify the actions of those who strap bombs to themselves and blow up innocent people is beyond me.

jluetjen · jluetjen's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
When HASN'T religion been used to further peoples' desire for power or territory?

-1337 when the French attached British settlements along the English channel
-1753 in the "Ohio Country" between France and England
-April 19, 1775 in Lexington and Concord MA
-January and February 1861 in the US South
-July 19, 1870 between France and Germany
-October 11, 1899 in South Africa
-July 28, 1914 in Austria-Hungery, specifically Serbia
-September 1939 in Poland
-December 7, 1942 at Pearl Harbor
-June 25, 1950 in Korea
-1946 in Vietnam
-April 1977 when Cambodia invaded Vietnam
-February 15, 1979 when China announced it's intention to invade Viet Nam
-September 22, 1980 between Iran and Iraq
-April 6, 1994 in Rwanda (a country that is 94% Christian!)

I'm sure that there are more, but they're just not coming to mind right now.

on-ramp · 08-03-2006, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jluetjen
[list=1]
-1337 when the French attached British settlements along the English channel
-1753 in the "Ohio Country" between France and England
-April 19, 1775 in Lexington and Concord MA
-January and February 1861 in the US South
-July 19, 1870 between France and Germany
-October 11, 1899 in South Africa
-July 28, 1914 in Austria-Hungery, specifically Serbia
-September 1939 in Poland
-December 7, 1942 at Pearl Harbor
-June 25, 1950 in Korea
-1946 in Vietnam
-April 1977 when Cambodia invaded Vietnam
-February 15, 1979 when China announced it's intention to invade Viet Nam
-September 22, 1980 between Iran and Iraq
-April 6, 1994 in Rwanda (a country that is 94% Christian!)[/list=15]

I'm sure that there are more, but they're just not coming to mind that easily.

what about Iraq invasion of Kuwait?... i dont believe that was over religion.

DaveE · 08-03-2006, 07:10 AM

Nor was our invasion of Iraq.

jluetjen · jluetjen's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by on-ramp
what about Iraq invasion of Kuwait?... i dont believe that was over religion.

Duh!!!! Good one!

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

Cute, but that wasn't what I asked. I asked for examples of religions that haven't been used to justify murder, oppression, etc. with a secular objective of attaining (or retaining) power or territory - not examples of conflicts that simply didn't happen to call upon religious differences as a way of dehumanizing an enemy or providing a basis for the conflict.

kang · 08-03-2006, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by onewhippedpuppy
We have a winner! What always baffles me is how those people buy that BS. "We are a religion of peace, now go kill some infidels!" ****** morons. If I was asked to kill in the name of my religion or God, the only response they would get is me laughing my way out the door. Unfortunately it would appear that most radical muslims don't share my opinion.

That’s good: if asked, you wouldn’t kill in the name of your religion. But what if you were asked to support requiring prayers in schools? The teaching of creationism? The linking of church and state?

onewhippedpuppy · 08-03-2006, 07:55 AM

kang, your direction is unclear. Are you insinuating that I would kill in order to get those sorts of things enacted? I see no problem with other people's beliefs, the right to choose a religion or no religion at all is a personal choice. Some people get a little pissy about it, but those are the same warm and fuzzy types that get dodgeball banned from school as well. I don't feel that my beliefs should be pushed upon others, but in some cases people go too far ("one nation under God"). Regardless, if you want religion as a part of your child's education, that's what church affiliated schools are for.