Medical School Application Information

[fintstone]

Any MDs out there who can give me some advice? My daughter is a senior in college and is getting ready to start applying for medical school and I would like advice from anyone who has knowledge of the process. She has a full medical school scholarship from the Air Force for any school she can get into. The problem is, what if she cannot get into one? She only has a brief window of opportunity. Of course she loses her slot and goes to do another job in the AF if she cannot get accepted. That is still a fine opportunity, but she really wants to be a doctor.

She has about a 3.75 GPA with a Major in Biology and a minor in Chemistry. I suspect that it will not help, but she has been active in school and has been a varsity cheerleader (ranked) and in Air Force ROTC for all 4 years. She has done a lot of volunteer work, including at a hospital where she has a little lab/clinical experience. She had a full ride AF ROTC Scholarship as well as the University’s Presidential Scholarship as well as several minor ones. She is leader...very fit, well spoken and attractive, so an interview would probably work to her advantage.
She did not score very well on her first attempt on the MCAT, and she just took it again a couple of weeks ago and thinks she improved significantly…but that would still put her nowhere near the top of the heap.
She needs to start applying soon and needs a strategy. She would prefer to go to the Uniformed Services School at Bethesda but would be happy to get into any school from North Dakota to Harvard. I don’t know if the fact she is military-bound afterward will work in her favor or against her. Obviously it is too expensive and time consuming to apply to all schools…so any help would be appreciated. Is there anything else like networking, etc? Thanks in advance.

[dd74]

First of all, congrats, man. Sounds like you have a helluva little girl, there. You must be proud.

I don't know the first thing about med school except that it's very competitive. Going on instinct, I'd think your first bet is talk to your family doctor, and see what he or she says about your daughter's application to med schools.

I would also think she being military bound would be a definite perk - as it would show she's good under pressure. Surely ROTC might have some ideas for her.

Sorry I can't offer more, Fint. But damn! Med school for your kid. Hey, you've done something right.

[gchappel]

Do I have another daughter? My daughter is a senior, 3.65, chem major with biochem minor. She is captain of the cheerleading squad and a certified coach- COA I think, national/international championships, etc. Lots of volunteer work, etc. She is going to work and wait a year before applying- I think she is not REALLY sure what she wants to do. Please let me know how your daughter fares, probably would be about the same as mine.
I have been on both sides of med school applications, as I have been on one of the acceptance committees as well. I am unaware of any real "tricks." It sounds like your daughter has the requirements, now some of it is plain luck. If the school offer interviews this is one place a child can shine- especially a cheerleader-they know how to bubble. Some training and practice interviews will help, but a positive interview can separate you out from the pack. Otherwise, apply to lots of schools and keep your fingers crossed. Good luck!
Gary

[cmccuist]

Fint, my daughter is in her fourth year of med school right now so I will just pass on what she told me about her application process.

1) As long as you're "competitive" with your MCAT score, not placing at the top is not a deal breaker.

2) The extra-curriculars are very important. My daughter was a lifeguard, taught swimming all through high school and college, taught CPR classes and volunteered at the local hospital.

3) Your daughter's GPA is great, but her major is not so great. Engineering and Bio-chem are near the top for desired majors. Biology for some reason is not as desirable. Not sure why. But the minor in chemistry with that GPA is really going to help.

4) The bad news is most schools are required to set aside a certain number of spots for residents of that state. For instance, my daughter was accepted to UT-Houston. There were 215 spots (with 4,000 applicants) and they were required to offer spots to 200 TX residents. If your daughter lives in Nevada she absolutely should apply to UNR med school. The out of state applicants will be very strong, but they are required to accept a set number of Nevada residents (or whatever state she lives in).

5) When she goes for the interview, she needs to be very clear to the interviewers that being a doctor is all she ever wanted to do and all she ever will want to do. There can't be any grey area there. My brother in law tanked his interviews. He actually told the interviewers at several universities that he was also thinking about becoming an actor! They made that decision for him. And this is a guy who had a 4.0, great MCAT, extra-curriculars, the whole package. He eventually got in. He went back and became an EMT for a year and that put him over the hump.

6) She needs to have an answer for the interviewers to the question of what will she do if she doesn't get in. The best answer is that she will find work in the medical community and apply again. For some reason, they don't want to hear that you'll go back to school for more degrees. Not sure about that, but working as an EMT or in a research lab will score points. My daughter's ex-boyfriend got in that way (working in a lab that did experiments on monkeys - great fun) when he was rejected the first time.

Good luck!! It looks like you did a tremendous job raising up that young lady!

[ChemMan]

It has been a few years, but I went through the process so I will tell you what I know. Mind you I did not end up going to Med School, but my sister who to asked me about the process did. I also go though the admissions process for high school students interested in med school every year. I have done this for several schools in the district.

She needs to apply to MD schools through AAMCAS. This primary application used to consist mostly of fact based questions like GPA etc. On this form, the schools she wants to apply for have to be selected. The more schools selected, the higher the fee. Keep in mind that only public schools are AAMCAS schools. Private schools like Harvard and Yale have separate applications. I applied to Yale. All I had to do was call them up and they sent out the application. Their application asked for more information and the fee has pretty high as well. They were very nice to deal with though. Not the stuffy Ivy league mentality I thought I would encounter. They also called me and asked for additional information.
After the AAMCAS application is sent in, the individual schools will send out a secondary application if they are interested. There is another fee for this. The secondary application will most likely ask more personal questions like what would you do in this situation or that situation etc. What is you opinion on this.....I think you get the idea. Each school has different secondaries or the application varies a lot. I remember the Michigan State application was very plain. No questions, just more money.
After the secondary the field is narrowed again. The remaining candidates are called into an interview. This may be with an individual or a panel. There may also be several candidates interviewed at once. I hear the DO school in Erie did this a couple of years ago.
At this point, if the candidate is accepted they will be informed and a deposit to secure their place will be needed.
That is about it.
If your daughter is concerned that her MCAT scores are not high enough, consider a DO school. This is not a put down on DO schools, but there seems to be less applicants to them. I believe there are 20 or so DO schools in the US. I know several DO's and I like their approach to medicine. Like MD's they also do fine financially.
The DO application process is the same expect instead of applying through AAMCAS, the application goes to ACOMAS (Better check the spelling on that!)
One additional thing that she might have to do if she has not already is to have her MCAT scores sent out to the private schools and ACOMAS if she decides to apply to a DO school or a private one. As far as I remember MCAT does not automatically do this. They might have changed now. I am not sure.
If she does apply to the DO schools, I have heard good things about the Michigan State DO school (used to do my physical chemistry homework in the cadaver lab there) and Midwestern University in Chicago.
Best of luck and keep us up to date on what is going on.
Mike

[notfarnow]

My sister in law has been going through this for 2 years. She has a 3.9 GPA, scored very well on her MCAT, but she keeps getting nailed by the interviews. She just doesn't articulate her thoughts well, gets nervous and then rambles. We tried helping her by doing test interviews using questions they typically ask, that helped a bit, but not enough to get her accepted. People with similar GPA & MCATS have gotten in based on their interview... it can carry a lot of weight at some schools. They really want to see maturity & drive.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I think being a senior is a bit late in the game to be considering this, so she needs to consider her alternate plan if she doesn't get in (or simply doesn't get everything done in time to apply) this go-around. I have one friend from back east that ended up going overseas for her medical school. Came back to the U.S., did residency and passed with a U.S. medical license. Lots cheaper than doing it all here.

Other than that, I'd say MCAT, MCAT, MCAT. . . She needs to be studying her ass off for that test. I busted my hump on the GRE exam (an honest two hours a day for probably 2-3 months) and I absolutely aced it. Preparation is the key - there are a number of study guides out there. She should avail herself of as many of them as possible.

[Nathans_Dad]

Hey Fint, tell her to run the other way!! LOL

Seriously:

Her GPA looks pretty good, I got in with less than that. MCAT scores are important, she needs something around a 27 to be competitive (that's assuming they haven't changed the scoring since I took it, so grain of salt with that number). The volunteer stuff is good as well, it will definitely help that she has done medical work.

USUHS is a great school, I work with their 3rd and 4th year students all the time. Heck, I am an associate professor there (can ya believe it??).

Letters of recommendation are important as well, she should try and get something from a physician she has worked with in her volunteer experience. If that isn't possible, then a charge nurse, dentist, physical therapist, etc. will do ok.

Her military scholarship will help her with USUHS, you have to have a military committment to attend.

[Don Plumley]

Though it has been a few years (okay, just over 20) I applied to Med School in similar circumstances. My grades were okay, BS Physiology and minor in English, reasonable extracurriculars and good volunteering. MCATs were okay but not stellar. Coming from CA (and a UC School) I was a beige fish in a big pond. 20+ rejections - name the school, they sent me a thin envelope.

But I knew that if someone would bring me in for an interivew, I'd get in. So I networked like crazy to find someone who knew someone who knew someone that worked at a Med School. That got me an interview and that got me accepted. Of course, I took a deferment and never went, but that's another story.

What others have said about "it's the only thing she ever wanted to do." and "If I don't get in, I'll go volunteer to immunize orphans in the Congo and then reapply next year" answers.

Find someone who knows someone - she sounds like an interview will clinch it for her.

Good luck! You should be a proud dad.

Don

[nostatic]

It would seem to me that USUHS is her best bet. One of my undergrad friends went there. He had good grades and pretty good GREs, but he chose there so he wouldn't have loans I would think someone with an obvious commitment to the armed services and good grades would be a strong candidate.

Bio is looked down upon as a major because it is the "easiest" of the "difficult" majors. You need a lot of science for the MCAT, and a bio major/chem minor is about the perfect setup for the exam...you don't have to take a lot of other courses. The problem is if you got a BS degree you likely didn't take a lot of liberal arts type courses, and med schools actually want well rounded individuals...for the "art" of medicine as opposed to the science. Actually back when I was an undergrad having a philosophy or sociology degree were good "premed" majors.

[vash]

still trying to find a way to cryogenically freeze myself and get put on some type of suspended hold, hans solo style. that way, i can get defrosted when i am closer in age to fints' girl. she sounds like a great one!

good luck to her.

[Moses]

Originally posted by notfarnow
My sister in law has been going through this for 2 years. She has a 3.9 GPA, scored very well on her MCAT, but she keeps getting nailed by the interviews. She just doesn't articulate her thoughts well, gets nervous and then rambles. We tried helping her by doing test interviews using questions they typically ask, that helped a bit, but not enough to get her accepted. People with similar GPA & MCATS have gotten in based on their interview... it can carry a lot of weight at some schools. They really want to see maturity & drive.

She should see a physician about the possibility of inderal for interviews.

[red-beard]

PM Mike95125

He just just started his 2nd year.

[Burnin' oil]

http://www.uag.edu/medicine/

Don't laugh

[Moses]

Originally posted by Burnin' oil

Don't laugh

No laughter here. Some of the top doctors in the Bay Area graduated from Guadalajara. Hasn't hurt them a bit. What really matters is where you do your specialty training. The chief of trauma surgery at a local hospital graduated from Guadalajara. While the Ivy League grads scrambled for the cushy suburban training programs, he was forced to learn surgery at Highland Hospital in Oakland, California. It's as close to a combat hospital as you'll find. Result? This guy is an amazing surgeon. He is widely known and respected.

Truth is, after you finish training, no one cares where you went to school. Either you know what you're doing or you don't.

[Burnin' oil]

A friend of mine graduated from Guad. and did his surgery residency in the Bronx

[Moses]

Originally posted by Burnin' oil
A friend of mine graduated from Guad. and did his surgery residency in the Bronx

He could probably send the sushi chefs home cryin' to their mommas.

[nostatic]

County USC is another nice place to learn your chops. The military routinely sends their docs there so they get lots of GSW exposure.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by fintstone
Any MDs out there who can give me some advice? My daughter is a senior in college and is getting ready to start applying for medical school and I would like advice from anyone who has knowledge of the process. She has a full medical school scholarship from the Air Force for any school she can get into. The problem is, what if she cannot get into one? She only has a brief window of opportunity. Of course she loses her slot and goes to do another job in the AF if she cannot get accepted. That is still a fine opportunity, but she really wants to be a doctor.

She has about a 3.75 GPA with a Major in Biology and a minor in Chemistry. I suspect that it will not help, but she has been active in school and has been a varsity cheerleader (ranked) and in Air Force ROTC for all 4 years. She has done a lot of volunteer work, including at a hospital where she has a little lab/clinical experience. She had a full ride AF ROTC Scholarship as well as the University’s Presidential Scholarship as well as several minor ones. She is leader...very fit, well spoken and attractive, so an interview would probably work to her advantage.
She did not score very well on her first attempt on the MCAT, and she just took it again a couple of weeks ago and thinks she improved significantly…but that would still put her nowhere near the top of the heap.
She needs to start applying soon and needs a strategy. She would prefer to go to the Uniformed Services School at Bethesda but would be happy to get into any school from North Dakota to Harvard. I don’t know if the fact she is military-bound afterward will work in her favor or against her. Obviously it is too expensive and time consuming to apply to all schools…so any help would be appreciated. Is there anything else like networking, etc? Thanks in advance.

Have your daughter see a councelor at any major University to which she wants to apply, or even one close by she neither wants to attend or is affiliated with the school she's in now. They will give her an idea of what her chances are at being accepted.

Based on your posting of her qualifications, she's acceptable material at most major med schools; such as UNC Chapel Hill, Duke University, Stanford and others. Keep in mind that her final score on the MCAT will be a factor, but certainly not the only one. Her interview will be important. I'd recommend, if she hasn't already, she take one of those tutoring courses for the MCAT, like Kaplan's, which teach the test taking strategy for the specific test she's going to take.

She should also keep in mind that an excellent performance in a good, but not nationally recognized top ten med school, will get her into a first class residency program which is miles more important in the long run.

[ChemMan]

I'll second Kaplan. I took it and it was good prep. I spent a good portion of a year reviewing for the MCAT. Just one hour or so a night. The last two weeks before though, I shut myself in the apartment and studied. Did a lot of practice tests at the Kaplan office. For those of you familiar with East Lansing, I lived on Lou and Harry's sandwiches for that time.
Mike