Would killing Bin Laden end terrorism?

[Jims5543]

Originally posted by techweenie
Even killing him five years later is retribution.

Some of the posters in this thread would have let this guy go free, I guess.

He will be killed I am sure of it. It will just before the next elections.

My point was that he has been able to live and thumb his nose to the USA for 5 years now. Great message to send. Attack the USA and you'll get yours!!! Eventually.


You pic is a really poor example. How long did it take to catch that terrorist?

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Originally posted by fintstone
Now that is funny! Of course it was a free (albeit expensive) pass. Your link would be convincing if it were not the same week he admitted he had sex with Monica Lewinski (good distracting, wag the dog type attack where no one is hurt) or if the military had not already advised him that Bin Laden was not there. There was even a link to an article (printed 7 days earlier) on the link you posted that showed that the camps were known to already have been evacuated. Sure, send a few missiles to my house 7 days after you were notified by CNN that I have moved. It will not scare me a bit. LOL!!!!
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/africa/9808/13/bombing.bin.laden/

Worse yet, the article clearly reminds us that it was no secret that:

So by 1998, he had been given a "free pass" by Clinton for 5 years!

So by your own logic it's now been five years since the 9/11 attacks and OBL has been given a "free pass" by Bush for the same five years. Why is it a "bad" free pass / five years when you're talking about Clinton and presumably a "good" five years / free pass when talking about Bush?

Don't forget, Bush abandoned the war on the Taliban and searching for OBL to go fight his little crusade in Iraq. It seems to me that sitting around not pushing "the button" to get OBL and instead monitoring him is far less greivous a crime than deliberately not getting him and letting him slip through our fingers after the biggest terrorist attack in U.S. history, 'cause we need to go fight our "payback for daddy" oil war somewhere else.

If Clinton gave a "free pass" to OBL, then Bush has not only been giving a free pass on the bus ride, but the busses themselves and probably even gassing 'em up before handing 'em over.

[fintstone]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
So by your own logic it's now been five years since the 9/11 attacks and OBL has been given a "free pass" by Bush for the same five years. Why is it a "bad" free pass / five years when you're talking about Clinton and presumably a "good" five years / free pass when talking about Bush?
...
If Clinton gave a "free pass" to OBL, then Bush has not only been giving a free pass on the bus ride, but the busses themselves and probably even gassing 'em up before handing 'em over.

It was a free pass by Clinton because we knew exactly where Bin Laden was and chose not to take him out.

Currently we do not know where Bin Laden is and cannot take him out.

Do you really consider your argument logical? It sounds like the gibberish that S. Penn seems to get a lot of air time reciting these days.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Bull. I'd bet dollars to donuts we know absolutely where OBL is and choose not to take him out. If we don't, then all those multi-billion-dollar satellites and surveillance airplanes and cleverly-inserted covert operatives are worthless and the military is an even bigger bunch of incompetent buffoons than the pre-9/11 intelligence agencies were. Of course any knowledge of OBL's whereabouts would be classified information because the majority of the American public WANTS to see him taken out, but the Bush administration most definitely has more to gain by having him "at large". I'm normally not a conspiracy theorist but this is clearly a case of incompetence at best and deliberate inaction at worst. Either is not great but there's almost certainly deliberate inaction going on here.

While on the surface it might appear that a "conspiracy theory" is less plausible a scenario than simple ignorance per Ockham's Razor, let me point out the following: What's more likely - that all of the many resources and tactics to locate OBL post-9/11 were total failures or that (as usual) politics trumps all else and a secret policy of "monitoring and containment" has been undertaken? Ironic how closely that sounds like the pre-Iraq policy towards Saddam Hussein - which incidentally was working pretty well. Another reason the administration could NEVER admit to such a policy against OBL, since it would be an inconsistent position. Why would it be sound policy to contain OBL and not to continue containing Hussein? See the obvious problem?

By manufacturing OBL as the "leader" of Al Qaeda within America, it's an attempt to unite everyone behind the crusade of the so-called "war on terror". Of course things like backdoor drafts, invasions in Iraq, no-bid contracts, so-called "Patriot Acts", degradations of civil liberties for American citizens, secret prisons, international treaty violations, detention centers and the like all get rolled into the package. Think of OBL as a little "seasoning" to make the bitter pill of all the other crap easier to swallow - at least that's the intention. Would capturing or killing him REALLY do anything to disrupt or stop Al Qaeda? Nope. But ask most of the idjuts out there and they'll say it will. That's precisely what the administration wants. It creates a "mission" and gives it inherent legitimacy 'cause hey! Let's face it! OBL killed all them people at the WTC! We're justified in doing whatever we want, whenever we want, to whomever we want with impunity because of that!

Never mind the fact that there are untold BILLIONS of dollars getting funneled into the coffers of politically-allied corporations and individuals. Never mind the fact that there are TRILLIONS of dollars in potential future earnings for politically-allied corporations and individuals. All of that is unimportant, right?

It's pretty painfully obvious to anyone with half a working brain cell that this situation is being exploited like a crack whore to further agendas that have NOTHING to do with 9/11, terrorism, a "war on terror" or anything else even remotely connected to the events that would POSSIBLY give them legitimacy.

Yet the idjuts lap it up and get indignant when anyone even suggests the possibility of impropriety. That alone is all the evidence I need to convince me that America as a nation is doomed. If people really are that vapid and dumb then perhaps they deserve their fate.

Nature does not coddle the weak - the world will make no special provisions for the survival of the stupid.

[fintstone]

While Clinton's inaction is a known fact, Any hestiancy on the President's part is merely hypothetical. So what you are saying is either Bush is an innocent and honest man doing his best to capture Bin Laden...or he has outsmarted the liberals...and you again. For someone you call "idjuts", they sure do outsmart you "smarter" folks a lot.

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile


Bull. I'd bet dollars to donuts we know absolutely where OBL is and choose not to take him out.
--------- so you figure that keeping such a complicated secret with the huge diversity of Fed groups involved is doable. You have more faith in the Feds than I do. I just figure that even the military has trouble protecting security issues as the NY Times demonstrates.


Of course any knowledge of OBL's whereabouts would be classified information because the majority of the American public WANTS to see him taken out, but the Bush administration most definitely has more to gain by having him "at large".
---------- I would tend to think that eliminating such a political and massmedia pro as OBL&Co would push the war agenda favorably? OBL's rants are just more fuel to a self disenfranchised murdering minority.


I'm normally not a conspiracy theorist but this is clearly a case of incompetence at best and deliberate inaction at worst. Either is not great but there's almost certainly deliberate inaction going on here.
------- so then there is a possibility the military is deeply involved in top secret operations just like the early cold war days when the CIA whacked thru proxies the President of Guatemala? [ A CIA operator named Belsito was involved and wrote books on it and Che Curvera sic. Really hard headed fantastic true stories.]
An incompetent US military is hard to digest. An imperfect military is easier.

Another reason the administration could NEVER admit to such a policy against OBL, since it would be an inconsistent position. Why would it be sound policy to contain OBL and not to continue containing Hussein? See the obvious problem?
---------- No i don't.. if such containment is true?

By manufacturing OBL as the "leader" of Al Qaeda within America, it's an attempt to unite everyone behind the crusade of the so-called "war on terror".
--------- I think "War Against Western Civilization" is a clearer name and picture.


Of course things like backdoor drafts, invasions in Iraq, no-bid contracts, so-called "Patriot Acts", degradations of civil liberties for American citizens, secret prisons, international treaty violations, detention centers and the like all get rolled into the package.
------- Besides war being a horror its anchilies suck imo.

Think of OBL as a little "seasoning" to make the bitter pill of all the other crap easier to swallow - at least that's the intention
------------- it does focus an audience like a national rape or phedopolie case. I can't blame massmedia for attracting viewers one way or another. Good point for TV fans.



Would capturing or killing him REALLY do anything to disrupt or stop Al Qaeda? Nope. But ask most of the idjuts out there and they'll say it will.
------- Phew.. glad I agree and have been posting such which must mean I'm smarter than I look.. thx



That's precisely what the administration wants. It creates a "mission" and gives it inherent legitimacy 'cause hey! Let's face it! OBL killed all them people at the WTC! We're justified in doing whatever we want, whenever we want, to whomever we want with impunity because of that!
---------- I don't care who agrees with retribution against mass murdering of US citizens on US soil.



Never mind the fact that there are untold BILLIONS of dollars getting funneled into the coffers of politically-allied corporations and individuals. Never mind the fact that there are TRILLIONS of dollars in potential future earnings for politically-allied corporations and individuals. All of that is unimportant, right?
--------- Ford, Kaiser, GM, etc were rolling in dough post WW2 so I figure there may be a return on investment in clinical economic terms. Lets not even bring up the multiplier affect of all that capital.



It's pretty painfully obvious to anyone with half a working brain cell that this situation is being exploited like a crack whore to further agendas that have NOTHING to do with 9/11, terrorism, a "war on terror" or anything else even remotely connected to the events that would POSSIBLY give them legitimacy.
----------- I think the politicians can play this card. I would think business crooks have a short 1/2 life? I mean real crooks, not the political ranting style crooks.



Yet the idjuts lap it up and get indignant when anyone even suggests the possibility of impropriety. That alone is all the evidence I need to convince me that America as a nation is doomed. If people really are that vapid and dumb then perhaps they deserve their fate.
--------- The newscaster sound bite makes for uncomplicated thinking for the masses. How many newscasters get involved in deep policy options? If they lose the attention of viewers they get clicked off.



Nature does not coddle the weak - the world will make no special provisions for the survival of the stupid.
--------- exactly correct imo.. Historically War and Economics define civilizations. Excellent point for history buffs.

[hunter914]

Originally posted by fintstone


Currently we do not know where Bin Laden is and cannot take him out.

Aren't you heading up the task force to capture OBL? At least according to Joeaksa you are. Shouldn't you know where OBL is?

How are those laserbeam Boeings coming along BTW?

How you are able to spend taxpayer $ while typing away all day long on an Internet forum is beyond me. take a pic and send it in, you are the poster child for why we should kill all lame-ass liberal entitlement programs. Meaningless doesn't begin to describe your contribution to our country.

[techweenie]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
Why would it be sound policy to contain OBL and not to continue containing Hussein? See the obvious problem?

It's an excellent question, but nothing done or not done by Hussein from '99 on would have prevented Budh's invasion. He had his mind set on it. The people around him were PNAC nuts who supported it.

The fact that Hussein was cooperating (although not fully) with weapons inspectors; had 50% of his country overflown continuously and, in February '03 was actively seeking terms of an exile -- those things added up to nothing for an administration that had planned to invade from the beginning. 9/11 was a kind of carte blanche for all the plans for both invasion and for demolishing longstanding privacy laws. (does anyone really think the 700+ page "Patriot Act" was written in the 5 weeks following 9/11/01?)

[fastpat]

Originally posted by techweenie
9/11 was a kind of carte blanche for all the plans for both invasion and for demolishing longstanding privacy laws. (does anyone really think the 700+ page "Patriot Act" was written in the 5 weeks following 9/11/01?)

The "Patriot Act" was in fact literally handed to congress by the FBI, it was a long standing laundry list of powers that onerous agency has wanted for decades. Many of those powers it had exercised unchecked during the 1930-1970 time period, and wanted them returned.

[Moneyguy1]

"We do not know where OBL is".......

Sez who? What proof? State sources.

That statement is as unprovable as so many that have been made on this BB and presented as truth.

This Bulletin Board is becoming far too predictable and, to be honest, boring. Sides have been taken, and both extremes lie like the proverbial rug. There will be no changing of minds since there is no honest exchange of ideas, only ideology. We know the players and what they are going to submit before they submit it. We know the ones who will make claims and when challenged will "conveniently" not respond or, it they do, with sarcasm and labels. Anyone who tries to be objective runs the risk of ridicule.

The fun is fading fast, folks. No honesty, no desire to learn, no exchange of ideas, just pontification and blather.

[fintstone]

Originally posted by hunter914
Aren't you heading up the task force to capture OBL? At least according to Joeaksa you are. Shouldn't you know where OBL is?

How are those laserbeam Boeings coming along BTW?

How you are able to spend taxpayer $ while typing away all day long on an Internet forum is beyond me. take a pic and send it in, you are the poster child for why we should kill all lame-ass liberal entitlement programs. Meaningless doesn't begin to describe your contribution to our country.

Does your mommy know you are playing on the computer again?