F1 more exciting in the old days?

[Jims5543]

I hear a lot that F1 was more exciting in the old days.

I was looking at results from 8-12 years ago. Unless many are thinking af times further back they were not that exciting.

3 drivers would finish on the lead lap. Passing? I guess so, if you count passing a lapped car 3-5 times in a race. I was amazed that 80% of the field was lapped at least once and a lot of them were lapped 2-4 times.

Now its a huge deal if you lap all the way up to position 11.


Example: 1990 Interlagos

The 4th place car finished 1 lap down and 14th place car was 7 laps down.

Maybe that was a freak race how about the next year:

1991 Interlagos
Now you have to look all the way to 7th place to see a lapped car and the 13th place was lapped 8 times.

Maybe a track where passing is more difficult like Monaco:

1990 Monaco

3 cars finished on the lead lap. P4 is 1 lap down and P7 is 6 laps down. Only 7 cars finished making Indy 2005 look like an actual race.

Am I missing something? It seems these last 2 years have been very exciting with McLaren, BMW (2004,2005) Renault and Farrari all getting wins and many more cars on the lead lap sans the usual 4 at the back.

Do I need to look back further for closer races with more passing?

[beepbeep]

Ehh?

I Think you picked wrong examples. Try this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIJuqUsj7zA&mode=related&search=

Make sure you watch whole clip. That my friend, was racing in old days

[Jeff Higgins]

The sport itself is very interesting and very exciting. Too bad the races are not. I'm not sure what they could do to fix that. Like CS119laCoS says, that's not what F1 is all about. The day they start trying to artificially making it "more competive" on the track is the day it loses its appeal. Some of that has already started, granted, but they really should not bring it that much further.

I have been a dedicated fan since I was a kid (early '70's). I can remember some exciting races, but for the most part, it has been pretty much as it is now. The money and talent win, and the gulf is greater in F1 than in the artificially tweaked series. That sure doesn't seem to dissuade the fans, though.

[motion]

Remember Monaco about 10 or 12 years ago when Panis won? I think there were 3 or 4 cars to finish the race. Attrition and non-parity were the norm back then, for sure. Today's cars are amazingly powerful and reliable. Plus, cornering speeds are almost maniacally fast. Sometimes, I break into a giggle watching them go around corners, like the VCR is on fast-forward!!! The cars were going through the esses in Japan this past weekend in 6th WFO!!! Amazing stuff.

[masraum]

Originally posted by motion
Sometimes, I break into a giggle watching them go around corners, like the VCR is on fast-forward!!! The cars were going through the esses in Japan this past weekend in 6th WFO!!! Amazing stuff.

Yep. Exactly.

[motion]

Come to think of it, I think its 7th gear these days.

[jluetjen]

You can go back to the 60's, and generally the races weren't any closer then they are now. Sure there were a few that were really close, but that's true now too. The closeness of the competition is not always indicated by the closeness on the track given the wide range of variables (including the weather) being managed.

The spectical is in the struggle, not the number of passes.

[cegerer]

IMO, the change is more to do with driver personalities (and lack of same!). There were a lot of characters 'back then'. Even 10-15 years ago: Senna, Prost, Mansell, Hill, etc. Before that, Gilles, Lauda, Andretti, Arnoux, Pironi, Hunt, Fittipaldi, etc., etc., etc. It was easy to find somebody you really liked or disliked. There were always BIG rivalries.

Today? there's Schumacher and ..... well, there's Schumacher and that's about it. Kimi, Alonso, Massa, Fishi, and the rest ...... they're all pretty much out of the same mold. These guys are good drivers but have no public personality. It's tough for fans to invest any emotion in robo-drivers.

[Dixie]

1990? Hell, I was thinking 1970...

[legion]

Originally posted by cegerer
IMO, the change is more to do with driver personalities (and lack of same!). There were a lot of characters 'back then'. Even 10-15 years ago: Senna, Prost, Mansell, Hill, etc. Before that, Gilles, Lauda, Andretti, Arnoux, Pironi, Hunt, Fittipaldi, etc., etc., etc. It was easy to find somebody you really liked or disliked. There were always BIG rivalries.

Today? there's Schumacher and ..... well, there's Schumacher and that's about it. Kimi, Alonso, Massa, Fishi, and the rest ...... they're all pretty much out of the same mold. These guys are good drivers but have no public personality. It's tough for fans to invest any emotion in robo-drivers.

I'm just going to say it and let the flames follow...

You know what series has driver personality? NASCAR. I think NASCAR knows what cultivates interest among the fans...and interviews consisting of ten words aren't it. Feuds, rivalries, and heated words keep the public tuned in.

[motion]

Originally posted by cegerer
IMO, the change is more to do with driver personalities (and lack of same!). There were a lot of characters 'back then'. Even 10-15 years ago: Senna, Prost, Mansell, Hill, etc. Before that, Gilles, Lauda, Andretti, Arnoux, Pironi, Hunt, Fittipaldi, etc., etc., etc. It was easy to find somebody you really liked or disliked. There were always BIG rivalries.

Today? there's Schumacher and ..... well, there's Schumacher and that's about it. Kimi, Alonso, Massa, Fishi, and the rest ...... they're all pretty much out of the same mold. These guys are good drivers but have no public personality. It's tough for fans to invest any emotion in robo-drivers.

I think you're spot on. Today's F1 drivers are corporate robots for the most part. I miss Mika! I think we'll be missing Juan soon, also.

[Owain]

Check out 1986. From a drivers championship perspective it was very exciting, with 4 drivers in the hunt right up to the end, with an edge-of-the-seat, sparky finish. Senna was already establishing himself as the qualifying master.






The cars were more fragile then than they are now, the engineering was very ragged-edge, looking for speed at the expense of almost everything else. Remember, at that time they didn't have the budgets they have now and a lot of their R&D was done on race weekends. If it worked you placed well, if it didn't then you were left at the side of the track or a lap or two down. Wind tunnels and test days were rare. A driver had to have a lot of "mechnical sympathy" if he wanted to finish consistently. The disapointment in Schumacher's DNF on the weekend underlined the difference between the modern era and years past: that sort of thing used to happen very frequently.

[Jims5543]

Thanks for the replies. I understand a lot more what the attraction is. Owain, I can see what you mean. The championship race between FA and MS has been the first close one I have seen since I started watching a few years ago. Even though the guy I was rooting for lost, I still felt it was one of the most exciting seasons I have ever watched.

I cannot imagine 4 drivers duking it out.

Thanks again, I understand now.

[MFAFF]

The mid 80s were a very exciting time.....and the 'feuds' were real....

Qualifying was an event in itself....remember the BMW turbo 'genade engines?'...those old 320 block (4 cylinder untis) with a monster turbo... 1.5 litres capacity and 'rumoured' to deliver 1500hp in quali trim....for a single lap go for it.......

Makes the current format 'tame'... all of htis with a manual gearchange, no TC, ABS etc etc.. but slicks and real wings.

It was a different era... different priorities and paradigms.....

It was more exciting, mainly becuase there were more variables....driver error was far more common... Senna at Monaco? Missed the entrance to the tunnel.. span; parked up and went home......Ron Dennis was less than impressed....not that he crashed.. but that he went home....brilliamt stuff..

Prost and Senna... one driving a McClaren car with a Honda engine, the other driving a Honda engine in a McClaren car....and they raced... no rules, no orders..just race.

Same as Mansell and Piquet at Williams... so much so that they lost the Drivers' Championship to Prost...

But the cars today are awesome...the professionalism, the striving for perfection....the ambition etc etc.. a different excitement...a different level...

Its exciting still, but its very different.

[Steve PH]

F1 ebbs and flows, it has dull periods were one team dominates and the races are procesional but it also has truly brilliant seasons. As a kid growing up in the eighties I found F1 deeply exciting but it was a genuinely exciting period in time to be watching it, had I started watching it during the mid ninties well I'm not so sure?

I do mis the personalities or in Nigel Mansel's case the moaning! Anyway here's an awesome example of some proper comitment. Senna in the wet in the opening laps of The european GP at Donnington Park. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouxDSuvB8E8

[Steve PH]

Oh and another, this time Mansel takes Senna.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHf-Ru9JwRI&mode=related&search=

[cegerer]

>>>I'm just going to say it and let the flames follow...

You know what series has driver personality? NASCAR. <<<<

I'd say you're correct. But NASCAR seems to be losing many of its personalities as well. I think it is inherent to some degree when the $$ stakes get so high - corporations are just not going to take a chance on 'a character'. Look at the newer drivers in NASCAR - they're all cookie cutter clones.

It should be interesting to see how F1 goes next year without MS, love him or hate him. One guy I do like is Scott Speed - he's got some personality, but not sure on the talent yet ....

[kycarguy 935]

I have been to about 15 F-1 races since 1976 at Long Beach, Ca. and the late 70's and early 80's were very special times in F-1. One of the reasons is teams like Tyrell and Lotus were trying many different things and secret designs that were only displayed during the first practice. I guess they didn't have so many rules back then and teams tried alot of different set ups. Back then too I could walk right up and talk to Mario or Gilles Villenueve , Jody Scheckter, James Hunt, Jackie Stewart, Clay Regazzoni and other of my other favorite drivers. Growing up in L.B. and hearing the cars practice at the LBGP is something amazing and still have great memories. I flew over the race in a helicopter during the 77 or 78 GP with the door open on the heli to get some pictures..would they let me do that now?...haha...I doubt it.

I know the 60's was exciting too but was too little to remember much about it. I still love F-1 and is still exciting but to me not as exciting as it use to be.

[Jims5543]

Just for fun on board laps:

1957
1963
1978
1991
1991 - Senna
2006

Some cool Senna vids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcl3L1QUUfk&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko94oniszuA&mode=related&search=

[Jims5543]

Originally posted by kycarguy 935
I have been to about 15 F-1 races since 1976 at Long Beach, Ca. and the late 70's and early 80's were very special times in F-1. One of the reasons is teams like Tyrell and Lotus were trying many different things and secret designs that were only displayed during the first practice. I guess they didn't have so many rules back then and teams tried alot of different set ups. Back then too I could walk right up and talk to Mario or Gilles Villenueve , Jody Scheckter, James Hunt, Jackie Stewart, Clay Regazzoni and other of my other favorite drivers. Growing up in L.B. and hearing the cars practice at the LBGP is something amazing and still have great memories. I flew over the race in a helicopter during the 77 or 78 GP with the door open on the heli to get some pictures..would they let me do that now?...haha...I doubt it.

I know the 60's was exciting too but was too little to remember much about it. I still love F-1 and is still exciting but to me not as exciting as it use to be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJObLdlAzr8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnpitiVAGQU