Your kidding me right
 

Almost everyone on this thread has called him out on it and never said the word, but FOS, BULLSHT and other version are the same...

So they all called him a liar.....in so many words..


Im not siding, but it was like a bloody leg in the water with Phiraha....


MAN THIS HAS BEEN A GREAT THREAD!!!!!
IM SO GLAD I STAYED AT A HOLIDAY INN EXPRESS LAST NIGHT!!!

Re: Your kidding me right
 

Semantics are semantics.

Lock this thread!

74 dino
 

i like that dino...is it like this one?http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1160617525.jpg

1-claims were made in an ebay ad that many say are preposterous
2-owner showed up and said 'bring cash and i'll prove it'
3-bs bs bs bs bs bs bs bs bs bs bs bs bs

if you do not believe the claims in question (i would think a description of the gearset would allow simple math to prove or disprove a lot of this) you all have two options: 1-show up with cash 2-STFU

honestly, trash talking is entertaining and all but when somebody calls you out (as exec has done) it's your turn to prove your manhood or go shopping for skirts.

8500 rpm?

F=ma, a=v^2/r.

--> F=m*v^2/r

1200rpm above redline (7300rpm) is ~16% increase in rpm, or ~36% increase in force of rotating parts, assuming the same mass. I have not done the mechanics of the stock internals and don't know if they will put up w/ this. Either way, 8500rpm cannot be advisable until the internals are of known quality, and you enjoy doing frequent teardowns.

Man, all I asked is "Is this possible?" I never thought the question would spawn(sp.?) 12 pages!!!

I spent a lot of time taking pictures at Crytal Cove and posting the to OT, only to end up with a few meager postings. Who woulda thought!

IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT!!! http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/explode.gif

The Christmas turkey cannot compare.

One more time.
 

HP requirements for MPH

The formula:

HP = (MPH/234)3 x WEIGHT

The Math:

165 MPH / 234 =.7051

(.7051)3 is .7051x.7051x.7051 x 2200 (generously low weight for a Targa) = 543.78 hp

The BS:

No 2.4, 2.7, or 3.8 for that matter.

Any questions?

Tom

Like I said...a geographic difficulty for me, but I'd be willing to donate...so would others.

sithot YOUR MATH IS WRONG! YOU GET AN F.. NOW GO BACK TO YOUR SEAT!
 

perfect.

sithot YOUR MATH IS WRONG! YOU GET AN F.. NOW GO BACK TO YOUR SEAT!
 

USING YOUR FIGURES....

"2,200LBS would need 543HP to reach 165MPH..." Thats ridiculous

Well lets transfer your numbers to a known entity in the real world..Not just on paper.

Using YOUR incorrect equation my SL55 @4,400LBS (2 X 2,200LBS) would need 2 x 543HP = 1,086HP to reach 165MPH.. or maybe even more HP given mass and draq.. Correct?

Fact:
An SL55 has ONLY 494 HP and weighs 4,400LBS with a derestriced ECM will go past 202 MPH. . This has been done by numerous SL55 owners.

What is wrong with this picture?

You have left out the gearing factor which can reduce or multipy torque. A tall gear can pull a very high speed over a long distance. Like say the very long roads in the Mojave Desert.

But thats not important because you got your books and equations and they say it is impossible..

I wonder what the books and equations said in 1909 about the posibility flying at Mach 5.. Or sending moving and talking color images to a wristwatch..

They were just able to teleport matter and energy.. "that is illogical"... but beam me up Scotty!

I know books and equations are always perfect.

sithot YOUR MATH IS WRONG! YOU GET AN F.. NOW GO BACK TO YOUR SEAT!
 

.

Re: One more time.
 

Sorry, wrong math! That is the formula to determine HP required to reach a given MPH from a standing start in the 1/4 mile, it's relatively accurate but doesn't take into account variances in aerodynamic drag, gearing, or shifting speed between different cars. According to Porsche's own website's specifications for the new 911 GT3 it has a top track speed of 193 (this implies it's the fastest they've taken it but whatever), a curb weight of 3075lbs not including driver and 415 HP.

Using your math it would take AT LEAST 1726HP for a GT3 to cross the finish line in a 1/4 drag race at 193 MPH. If I solve the equation for MPH based on the curb weight and stated HP I get right around 120 MPH for a trapspeed in the 1/4 mile which suggests it's a very solid 11 second car. that would be about right given the weight and HP based upon my own personal experience.

Anyone here know how much HP is required to move a 3000lb car of average aerodynamics down the interstate at 65mph? It's a LOT less than you think.

As for all us so called experts saying it isn't possible? Myself, cegerer, mr9146, and even TRE Cup have stated in this thread otherwise. TRE Cup is a respected car builder and he claims this Targa kept up with him when he pulled the redline of 7800 RPM in high gear in his 2.8L RSR.

I know of a frequently driven 302 ford V8 that turns low tens in the 1/4 mile "on the motor" in other words no power adders like NOS or forced induction, that car is shifted at or above 8000 RPM depending upon track conditions. I've stood right next to that car when it pulls a perfect launch and runs those numbers and I've seen the owner put the street tires back on and drive it home. If an American V8 can be built to survive 8000+ RPM on a regular basis and survive without frequent teardowns or limited driving what makes you think that an engine the started with a 7300 RPM redline and was built to cruise all day long at that redline can't be massaged up to 8500 RPM?

I think the sellers ad was stupid, but that doesn't mean I don't think the claims are possible. Guys 165 simply isn't all that fast in the grand scheme of things. How fast would an F1 car run the salt flats if the down force was set to a mimimum and the car was given a tall enough gear to reach max speed? Based on my short geared 911 box my car would hit 165 at just under 8000 RPM if I had the engine to do it. Besides I still think the factory redline is at least 500 RPM on the conservative side.

Correct; 1/4 mile times.

FWIW, Joe Rodriguez does the quarter in 9.79 at 146.5 in his "modified" 3.6 Turbo. Fun stuff.

Tom

A QUIET BOOM..
 

Christian,

Very eloquently stated..

I was going to point out that back in the 1960s the Ford FE 427 side oiler would race all day long at over 7,000 RPM.. Same with the 426 Hemis...
Talk about alot of ricipricating mass and with pushrods operating the valves. Plus the lubrication factor of the oil in those days had severe limitations..

IMHO a Porsche engine that was designed to run at 7,300RPM is more likely to have a conservative redline by 1,000 RPM. The RSR motors had 10,000 RPM tachs. They had lightened valve train and pistons but the same crankcase and crank. I have no idea what is in this engine ..It may have titanium rods?..

It was not that I just started beating on this engine. I have owned over 30-40 early 911S cars but this engine just seemed to like to wing way past the redline.

Normally the 911S engines start to fall off the cam at 7,500 RPM but this engine just keeps pulling!

I guess when Tony tears it down some day we will know...

Since your car didn't sell, you have - at least - gotten some feedback on how to write a better ad next time.

Also, I would at least measure the lift on the cams and post that in the ad - it does not require taking the engine apart.

execmalibu,

Well I'm sticking up for you for several reasons. Mainly I believe it's totally within the range of possiblity. Second I'm a lot like you, most of what I've learned about engine building has been the hard way, at a dragstrip with a pile of broken parts. I'm also the type that will just go out and do things that "can't be done" just for the heck of it or even out of spite. Third is that I can't stand what I'll call internet "experts", 99% of what I know in this world came from actually doing it, not reading about it on the internet. On another forum one guy has a sig line that reads "google is not a substitute for intelligence" how true! Fourth I know my car, it's gearing and how high I've revved it. I used to take the internally stock 3.0 to 7000 all the time and it never hurt anything, I don't actually know the redline for a 3.0 but I think it's around 6200-6500. Since my dyno sheets indicated max HP around 6000 that's about where I shift it now when I'm thrashing on it, no need for me to go to 7000 if the power starts falling of at 6000. My speedo is within a few MPH and I've had it at an indicated 145 at 7000 RPM (but I'm not telling where) my car has a short geared 911 box (70-71 901) and if I do the math for 165 I need to be jsut under 8000 RPM. I figure to do that I'll need a complete top end as well as pistons, I don't know about rods and crank. My engine just quits breathing at 6000. This is not the case with the S's I've ridden in as well as read the specs on. The 2.4S made 190@6500 RPM stock according to BA's book with the '72 2.8RSR making 308@8000. Wanna get an idea as to what you have, pull the intake or the exhaust and measure the port if the ports are 38mm or larger there's a good chance you HP peak is up around 8000 based on the specs in BA's book. Bruce Anderson has long been considered an authority on these cars so I'm comfortable with using his numbers.

IIRC your rods are unlikely to be titanium as I believe it has a shorter lifespan than forged steel, besides with the relatively short stroke of these engines they don't need to be anything other than well balanced forged steel. My drag motor was a stroker Windsor Ford, 410". That's a 4" stroke with a 4.040" bore, any idea how ridiculously high the psiton speed is with that kind of stroke at 8000?, yet it held together just fine (well unless like I stated earlier I got too aggressive with fuel or timing). My guess is you've got something between a 2.4S with well ported heads and a good cam like the 901/20 and a 2.8RSR spec motor stuffed into the 2.4S case.

Poking around the internet tonight I wanted to know just how much HP was required to move a car down the interstate at 65 MPH and I came across this page:

http://www.mayfco.com/hpvsspd.htm

It's for a 2400lb Sunbeam Tiger and extrapolating from the numbers for 160 and 170 MPH I get about 275HP required to make a Tiger go 165. I figure the Tiger and the 911 to be close enough in aerodynamic drag for the sake of this argument.

To make it even more plausible, my brother is an engineer for Ford and he has a term, "stacking tolerances" wherein sometimes the errors are all in one direction and thus the total error is greater. If your tach and your speedo are somewhat optimistic and the car is actually doing 160 at 8000 RPM while indicating 165 and 8500 RPM you'd need only about 250HP, not a difficult number for a massaged MFI motor to achieve based on some of Henry Schmidt's posts in the engine forum. It's possible this car was a special wishes program car, the PO had a built engine installed, the factory ran out of stock heads and dropped on a set of RSR heads, etc. Any number of things could explain this. We already know the gearing is there, 180 MPH then I'd say you're crazy LOL.

Agreed, I'd go so far as to identify the cams, take pictures of the valve train and measure the intake and exhaust ports. You might find you have a very special engine and it might be worth a teardown to prove it. Think of what the car would be worth if it had a 2.8RSR motor in it.

All of this makes me long for twin plugs, 10:1 compression, 43mm ports and 46mm Zeniths (yes Zeniths, it's possible you know but let's not start a whole 'nother debate), big cams, and strong valvesprings. I'd love to have a 3.0 that peaked at 7500-8000 RPM. Streetablity is a relative term. ;)