HELP! OT Distributor/Ignition Problem

Rot 911 · 11-12-2006, 12:25 PM

Hopefully you guys can lend some insight to a very frustrating problem. Back in July my '60 Willys started doing some severe misfiring. So bad the wagon couldn't even move under its own power. After much troubleshooting I concluded it was something in the distributor or the plug wires or coil. Those parts are cheap on a Willys so I just replaced them all. Problem solved, engine ran like new. Now today the problem has started up again. It started with a small misfire and inside of 5 minutes again misfiring so bad you can't move the wagon. The distributor seems to be solid, doesn't wiggle. Timing is set correctly and the carb is getting plenty of fuel. Plug wires are brand new as of this summer as is the distributor cap, rotor, points and condensor. The system is 12 volts with a generator. The battery is good and the system puts out 13.6 volts. Could it be burning up points or the condensor? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. I thought I knew ignition systems, but this one has me stumped.

VINMAN · 11-12-2006, 02:21 PM

Kurt, are the contacts on the points burnt up or pitted? Are the points tight on the distributor plate?

dhoward · dhoward's Garage

Moisture in the cap?
We did have a BIG change in the weather....

dhoward · dhoward's Garage

Insulation rubbed through on anything inside the dizzy?

Hugh R · 11-12-2006, 04:52 PM

Check your condensor wire and make sure its not grounded. Clean the inside of the cap with alcohol to get any stray dirt/graphite out of it. If you have a dwell meter hook it up and crank the engine over and check dwell for correct setting and movement of the needle. If excess movement of the needle your dist. shaft bushings may be kaput. Let us know what you find.

Rot 911 · 11-12-2006, 05:14 PM

Thanks for the responses guys. I'll try to add some more information here.

Vinny, the points may be burnt. They did have a grey colored oxide on them. They only have about 100 miles on them. What would cause them to burn? Oh and the points are tight on the plate.

DHoward, no moisture on the inside of the cap, nice and dry. No broken insulation. Wiring is new.

Hugh, the condensor wire and the wire from the coil are both connected to the points. The points are screwed to the distributor base plate. Wouldn't this "ground" the condensor anyway? Could you give me more information as to what to look for? I will check the dwell as you describe. Fortunately, I still have a dwell meter for use with my British cars!

john70t · 11-12-2006, 05:26 PM

Water in the tank? Shorted coil?

Rot 911 · 11-12-2006, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by john70t
Water in the tank? Shorted coil?

I know the gas is good. I can hang a small container with fresh gas to gravity feed the carb and get the same misfire. I replaced the coil with a new one. Same problem.

Jeff Higgins · 11-12-2006, 05:39 PM

Kurt, make sure that condensor connection to the points is not directly grounded. In other words, it should be to the same side of the insulated terminal on the points as the coil wire. Like the coil wire, it should only be grounded when the points are acually closed. Most of the time there is a flat metal connector that has a "U" shaped cut on it that slips over the post on the insulator on the points. If you slip it down into the wrong side of the plastic insulator, it can contact the fixed base of the point assembly, the part that is screwed down onto the distributor. If that's the case, and it is grounded all the time, then it is out of the loop, so to speak, and doing nothing at all. And you'll burn through points like crazy.

john70t · 06:07 PM

Engine ran perfectly for half a year...... and now (suddenly) will barely run at all?
It's gotta be fuel, or total failure of an ignition component-my guess.

As a hail-mary, mabye the EGR or a PCV valve is stuck open, a timing chain has stretched and jumped, or even a big vacuum hose is off.

Rot 911 · 11-12-2006, 06:08 PM

Jeff you may be on to something. My distributor is quite old and does not have the plastic insulator you are talking about. Where the wires connect, including the "u" shaped metal connector of the points, to the hold down screw on the terminal all are isolated from the baseplate by an insulated pad. But looking at the points, the faces look burned. I will try to post a picture tomorrow. I may have inadvertenly installed the points in such a way that I managed to ground them out and burn them up.

dhoward · dhoward's Garage

The burning really comes from the condenser not, er..., condensing, causing the points to arc as they open.
The wire from the condenser has to make contact with the moveable arm on the set.
If the wire is grounded. you wont get any fire, but you won't burn them either.
Show us a picture if you can tomorrow. Don't forget to use the 'macro' (flower looking thing) button on the camera!

I wonder what ever happened to the tractor guy?

Rot 911 · 11-13-2006, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dhoward
Don't forget to use the 'macro' (flower looking thing) button on the camera!

That's the main reason I got the digital camera I have. That and it is small enough to fit in my pocket. Now the pictures:

These points have less than 100 miles on them:

Here is how the points fit in (wires removed for clarity)

Here you can see the insulating pad at the bottom of the terminal (medium brown color)

And here is the distributor without the points:

Jeff Higgins · 11-13-2006, 05:20 AM

Does it have a ballast resistor? It looks like it may not, and too much voltage is getting to those points. Unless it has a modern internal resistor type of a coil, it needs that external ballast resistor.

Nostril Cheese · 11-13-2006, 05:28 AM

I had a similar problem on an Dodge pickup. Turned out to be the ballast resistor. FWIW

Rot 911 · 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Higgins
Does it have a ballast resistor? It looks like it may not, and too much voltage is getting to those points. Unless it has a modern internal resistor type of a coil, it needs that external ballast resistor.

I don't believe the Willys ever came with a ballast resistor, but I will check on it. The coil is new. How would I check to see if the coil has an internal resisitor? I have a Bosch blue coil on the workbench. Does it have an internal resistor?

Keep in mind that I probably put 3000 miles on the engine before this problem developed. But then again may I was just lucky!

Rot 911 · 11-13-2006, 05:56 AM

One additional question, could I have my coil wired incorrectly? I have the 12 volt power wire going to the + terminal and the wire going to the distributor on the - terminal.

dhoward · dhoward's Garage

That's the right way.
Man, those dudes are burnt.
Seems like a lot of current.....
Perhaps the coil your using does require a ballast....

Rot 911 · 11-13-2006, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dhoward
That's the right way.
Man, those dudes are burnt.
Seems like a lot of current.....
Perhaps the coil your using does require a ballast....

I wonder if they sold me a 6 volt coil?

dhoward · dhoward's Garage

That's just what I was thinking.
Without thinking about it too much, it seems like that would increase the current draw.
Hard to find Willys wiring diagrams in a quick search.....
These bastards at work keep interrupting!