My dad.
 

My dad is 82 years old. He's had a rough life. He joined the Marines at age 16 and was wounded twice at Guadalcanal and spent more than a year in and out of hospitals at wars end. He spent 26 years as an Oakland cop. He was shot twice, stabbed once and finally was "disabled" when his neck was broken by a pipe swung in anger. To say the man is tough is a drastic understatement.

At age 75, while remodeling his house, the managed to lift an 1800 pound glulam from the floor to it's resting place 9 feet higher. No hydraulics or block and tackle. He just lifted each end up 2" at a time. He hurt his back and had trouble getting around...for a few days. A week later he's on his roof rebuilding a brick chimney.

Fast forward to now. He's now 82. He drives a Dodge Ram diesel long-bed pickup. He somehow smashed the bed, so he bought a used one at a wrecking yard. He hauled it home, took off the old one and put on the new one. By himself.

I always have dad over for dinner on Sunday. Last night he showed up with a ragged bandage around his right index finger. I asked him what happened. Apparently he cut himself on the new pickup bed. I unwrapped it. He cut himself all the way to to the bone. How he didn't cut the tendons I don't know. Then he tells me he cut himself BEFORE he installed the new bed. He just waited for the bleeding to stop then pressed on with his project. His cut is now 2 days old and still needs stitches that he'll never get. At least he'll take some antibiotics.

I love this old fart, but he's making me a little crazy. He won't ask for help. I'd gladly help him with the tough jobs, but he never tells me what he's up to till he's finished.

How do you get a fiercely proud old man to be a little more careful?

Ask him where he'd be without the help of his Marine Buddys on Guadacanal?

You're a lucky guy.
Nothing you say will change him, and that's a good thing.

Once a Marine, always a Marine.

I hope my son feels the same way about me when I'm old and gray as you do for your dad.

I guess the only thing you can do is to be proactive and ask him what new projects he has lined up before he tackles them solo.

Had to deal with the same attitude from our grandmother. Here's the problem- it is this very attitude that has kept them so alert, happy, and self-sufficient. We never figured out how to get her to ask for help. You basically have to keep a close eye and help without making it seem like help.

Moses, he sounds a lot like my 88 year old grandfather (WWII vet) who passed on last year....they don't make 'em like that anymore!

Re: My dad.
 

You don't!

Look at it from his perspective. Whatever he's done, however he's done it, has worked for him for 82 years. What could you possibly do or say to convince him otherwise.

Keep in mind, this is a man who stared death in the face at a very young age, and lives on today to talk about it...if he so desires.

Richard Pryor said it best, many years ago, "You don't get to be old by being a fool."

A belated Happy Birthday to that Marine. We all could learn a thing or to (or twenty..) from him.

Semper fi!

Randy

He sounds like my dad. He was just a bit too young to enlist for WWII (4-5 years younger than your dad), but he is the same. Farm kid from North Texas. No Hospitals nearby. If you cut yourself, you bandaged it and got back to work. No one else to pick up the slack.

The only problem is he is not getting to the point (At 78) where he can't lift things anymore. You sound like you have a great dad and be happy and hope he is around for a long time.

Same as my old man. Old carrer military guys are tough m'fers.

Which is the problem. You find out about problems way too late. My dad passed away in August. His affairs were not as neat and tidy as I had imagined they would be. Finally got the probate paperwork last week, almost 3 months after he passed. In the meantime I'm hemoraging cash like crazy on funeral, lawyers, the house, helping out his girlfriend etc...

First ten days he was gone cost me $10,000.

I know it's not the way he wanted things to go down but when they get old they think they know everything and don't want to burden you so they start to do stupid stuff, all with the best intentions of course.

I encourage anyone with elder parents to FORCE them to sit down and go thru all thier paperwork. At minimum get someones name in trust on the bank accounts so you can immediately shut off the financial machine after they pass away or you end up with a mess.

Sounds cold but it's a reality, nightmare that I've been dealing with for a while now.

Scott

Moses, you honor and love him...above all else.

Re: My dad.
 

You can't without damaging the essence that makes him so proud. You might try to find out what he's up to and then just happen to show up at the right time. "Mind if I give you a hand Pop?" Then he'll proudly say "Look what me and my boy did"

Moses, your father is the type on man who makes this country so great. I applaud him for his service to the country, to Oakland, and to the grittiness of the "can do persona!"

I love that unrelenting and uncompromising virtue. You cannot change him even if you wanted. It is what makes him....him.

David

Good to see real tough men still exist in this world. Sadly, they're getting edged out in favor of wimpy, emasculated so-called men whose main concern is their manicures. Or maybe that's just the lion's share of who I happen to know (and not get along with) here in L.A. :rolleyes:

Re: My dad.
 

My wife accuses me of the same. As for your father, mine was the same until mom started falling and he noticed he can not get up if he fell. He started relying on me more then.

You probably need to swing by more often. Good luck

Good one, tabs.

Sounds to me like he gets great satisfaction out of tackling jobs/tasks that other folks would ask help with.
IMO, that is precisely what gets him off - if you will...getting results where the universe gives "normal" folks very little agreement. Sets him apart...gives him identity.
.
Tough old buzzard, he is.
Reminds me of the independent pioneer spirit where I was raised - North Dakota.
The good news for you is that he's still around.
.
My g/f: "Where are all the real men these days?"

Re: Re: My dad.
 

Exactly. This is the only thing that will work. You get to spend more time with him too. Good for everyone.

Thank you for the story Moses, and the reminder.

You lack the ability to change this man, and you should also lack the desire.

While it is true that he will not live forever, in the meantime he will LIVE. Much more so than most.

It has become apparent to us that you are cut from a good bolt of cloth. We knew that already.

best response ever.

He's a Marine, he should follow orders if they are from his superior (generally speaking). Of course, you're his son - so you're *NOT* his superior.

:D

Marines are awesome.

great story, moses..great dad..you're lucky.
ryan

The generations brought up without all the commodities of todays lazy generations. We have them in Sweden too, you know. My mothers father was one. Died 98 years old out of misery, six months after his wife died. They were married 78 years! He never complained about anything.

Also reminds me of a patient I met during my internship. In Sweden there is generally a big difference in tolerance for sickness and pain between city dwellers and the tough country folks.

So, one night on call at the ER, in comes a real character from out in the woods. About 17 years old. Big, bloody, dirty bandage around his left hand. After removing said bandage it is apparent that he has managed to cut two finger clean off chopping wood. The guy had walked into the ER.

" Why didn´t you call for an ambulance ?? Maybe we could have made a transplant if you have the cut off fingers with you."

" Don´t bother, I have looked for them all morning. Couldn´t find them."

"What do you mean all morning...???"

"Well, you see, this happened last night. Was too dark to look for the fingers until this morning. And besides I only came by here as it still has not stopped bleeding....."

The object of the post is HOW to get the man to think about needing a bit of help, and not about just leaving things the way they are.

U mean the punk ****** Metro Boyz U hang with....The Girly Men...

The Liberal Rob the "meathead" Reiner type of "I know best" mentality. The ones who are so Ain't Gun that they object to kids on the playground using their fingers as six shooters. Playing tag is to rough for em, and dare say all they know about the car they drive is that they stick the key in the puss....ah I mean ignition.

And when they are leaving I wonder if they are waving goodbye or just trying to get their nails to dry.

I think that will be rather difficult. For a strong individual from that generation to accept he needs help before he himself realizes it. He probably feels the gains does not out weight the loss in terms of dignity and integrity. Alas.

That does not imply one should not try if one feels the gains out weight the losses. Its a complex, multi factorial matter.

What does he need ? What makes him happy ? What is he willing to scarifies ?

This is a topic where Internet advice are very difficult to give IMO.

Your funny Livi...

The man has learned self reliance, "well this mornining I've got to take out the motor from that truck." He doesn't think about it, he jsut does...So a little realization is in order and what better way than for him to remember a time when he had to depend on his buddies for survival.

Please recognize my language disability.

funny as in strange/peculiar or,
funny as in make you laugh ?

STRANGE..as in not making sense, or more to the point..not adding anything usefull that could affect change. Thats what the Thread is about...How to affect a bit of change..

Thanks for the rewrite. :p

Thanks for making me realize that, tabs. I am sorry if I have offended Moses and/or wasted bandwidth by posting my honest thoughts on a difficult dilemma. And thanks for helping me figure out something else that has had me bewildered for a while.

Moses, please ignore my posts, they obviously don´t apply.

Ohhh Markus stop sulking or we will begin to think that U are really one of those punk ****** Metro Boyz, that DeeDee likes to hang with

Yeah? And who is this ass-angler again?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1117667808.jpg
Jeez, Tabs. Will hypocrisies never cease?

Come on, Tabby. Where's the kinder, gentler Tabdulah?

You and Markus are both high on my list of people I'd like to share a beer with. In fact, Markus' tale about the fellow who cut off his fingers describes my father pretty well. You have both made good points, but from different perspectives. So play nice! (Oh, crap...did I sound like Cool Chick?) :D

Your dad is badass! My dad's cool too, but he prefers having me do the hard labor while he instructs (lit cigarette in hand mind you). ;-)

In all seriousness, that is awesome Moses, you should be proud.

Just tell him. He'll scoff, but eventually he'll get the point. My dad is like your's but he's 90 now, and he knew when he had to cool it, sometime around 85-86. Gave me his 944 at 89, when he knew he'd had enough :)

These guys have a completly different frame of reference than you or I, and there is absolutely no way we'll "get it" fully. OTOH, they did what they did for their kids, and they will respond, just not immediately nor will they acknowledge why.

You know Moses, I've always read your posts with admiration and respect but for some reason, never responded.

This one touched me.

I can relate. Your description of your father is my grandfather to a tee. He was in the war as a medic but would never tell me any details. Whenever I asked him about it, he just told me it was in the past. If I pressed him on it, he said he had seen bad things and seen men do bad things to others.

He kicked my ass physically when my dad was teaching me about nonviolent resistence. He drove a taxi in NY whenever he didn't have other work. He taught my dad, who taught me to work on cars and realize that if some one's hands had made it, ours could fix it.

He was a man who at 75 would come to visit my mother and me and decide our house was in need of paint. Next thing I knew, me and Grandpa were scraping the eves and rolling on a new coat.

He died at around eighty, fifteen years ago. I've got his set of 1/2 SK sockets and the memories of one tough MFer. I miss him every day.

Relish the time Moses, he don't need no changin'

Jess

if he read any of this he'd kick yer ace moses.

great story none the less, i'd like to have a guy like that as my neighbor. help me out with my heavy lifting...

Steve Carlton posted this pic in the "More Random Pics..." thread. Somehow, it seemed appropriate here.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1163471112.jpg

Randy

Moses,

Your father sounds alot like my grandfather, Stan who passed this past February. Very proud, tough and stubborn... those traits got him through some rough times (WWII, etc...) and made for some great memories for us. Enjoy the time you have with your father and help keep him safe... or as safe as you can!

Livi, your a MD right? U have to have a certain amount of intelligence to become an MD, right? They just don't hand out MD degrees willy nilly in Sweden, do they? So why the Sulk. didn't U stop and think about what I posted before U reacted with your reply?

1. Didn't U stop and think, well this is the way I feel about what he said, and how am I going to respond to Tabs.

2. Didn't U stop and think, well why did he say what he had to say to me? (What was Tabss reasoning?)

The point being that there are ways of saying things that can effect change. Moses is a guy that dearly loves his Dad and is worried about him now that he is getting older. No need to complicate things there is a simple straight forward way to make the old man realize that maybe he has forgotten that he just MIGHT need alittle help now and then. All we want here is a little realization here and not a major change.

Livi,

Don't let tabs get to ya. He's been a bully all his life. In fact, his favorite childhood pastime was pushing wheelchair-bound kids down the stairs. :eek:

Randy ;)