NASCAR Question

[Jims5543]

I tried to watch the final race in Homestead to see how Juan would do. It was unwatchable and I turned it off.

Please explain how one car with a flat tire requires a full caution with a pace car for 2 laps. By the time the pace car gets out of the pits the car with the flat is in the pits already and the track is clear, yet the pace car stays out for 2 laps.

All the commercial breaks were just annoying as well it was like watching F-1 on network TV instead of Speed.

Later in the race I swear there was no reason for a caution and they threw a yellow and a pace car just for fun.

What happened to pit strategy? I must be missing something.

I flipped back and forth for a while then just gave up on it. I must have missed something because it made no sense to me what so ever.

[legion]

I've been to four NASCAR races. These are my thoughts:

-They are obsessive about debris. If there is a flat, they spend 2-4 laps scanning the track for debris and cleaning it up. Then another 2-3 laps getting ready for green.

-Every NASCAR race has a mysterious caution a few laps from the end (if a legitimate one does not occur and usually caused by unseen "debris") to bunch up the cars and make the finish "exciting".

I can't stand watching NASCAR on TV...

[rfuerst911sc]

I only watch NASCRAP when they run road courses, as you observed on ovals it's like watching steel rust!! To each his own but I prefer sports cars,rally,drag racing etc.

[cstreit]

Yellow flags in NASCAR are the folding chairs of "pro" wrestling. They use them to make things more interesting for the viewers

[928ram]

Just in case Jim was looking for an actual answer....

Nascar uses only full-course cautions, the field is seperated into lead-lap cars who pit 1st time around, and lap(s) down cars who pit on the 2nd pace lap.

[Joeaksa]

Agree with the comparison to WWF wrestling. Its all a show and done as such to make money for everyone. Why the American public have gotten so wrapped up in this crap is beyond me but they have.

Am overseas now and one of the satellite channels here had a CRASHCAR race on. Watched about 45 seconds of it and just as above, pushing, shoving and more cautions. I changed the channel and got on to something much more entertaining.

[Aerkuld]

I think you have to understand the difference between racing and spectator sport. NASCAR is most definitely the latter. Everything is geared around the spectacle of the event and making it appear that it is a close 'race'.
Even the off-track activities are carefully vetted by the officials in order to make the 'racing' closer. If an engine manufacturer comes up with an improvement, the NASCAR body will only let you use it if you are uncompetitive. If you've been doing well, then you have to keep your mod on the shelf until they say you can use it.

When was the last time you ever saw someone dominate in NASCAR?

On the other hand, they have a large proportion of the public watching their events, and make a whole bunch of $$$ in the process, so you can't blame them.

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by Aerkuld On the other hand, they have a large proportion of the public watching their events, and make a whole bunch of $$$ in the process, so you can't blame them.

While I totally agree with most of what you say above, I can blame them as we all should. Racing should be unlimited "free for all's" that lets the best team and driver win, not a planned event like it is now.

They are pulling a sham on the American public and eventually it will come out. Again like the worthless WWF wrestling they lost a lot of their viewer base when it came out that they were actors and not real wrestlers.

[LakeCleElum]

Not to even mention the crazy scoring system that gives the top ten a new lease on life 2/3's of the way thru the season....

[Aerkuld]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
While I totally agree with most of what you say above, I can blame them as we all should. Racing should be unlimited "free for all's" that lets the best team and driver win, not a planned event like it is now.

They are pulling a sham on the American public and eventually it will come out. Again like the worthless WWF wrestling they lost a lot of their viewer base when it came out that they were actors and not real wrestlers.

I would say that if you want racing, watch racing. If you want a spectacle watch NASCAR. You really can't balme them for making it the way they do. There is no disputing that it is a VERY popular, well marketed, and profitable series.

Although I see why you make the analogy to WWF wrestling, I don't think it is entirely true. I don't want to take anything away from the NASCAR drivers, as I am sure they really are trying to race and win. But the NASCAR organization are the ones manipulating the equipment to make the racing close. Unfortunately, I don't think the spectators could care less about that, all they want is an exciting event.

I prefer REAL racing, with technology, engineering development and 'secrets'. Personally, I would rather watch one F1 race than a whole season of NASCAR.

[legion]

Funny...

F1 is more and more becoming a spec series like NASCAR.

[DaveE]

Originally posted by legion
Funny...

F1 is more and more becoming a spec series like NASCAR.

I don't think I agree with that, but the spec tire for next season should be interesting, taking that variable away and seeing how the top teams compare on the same tire.

[Jims5543]

So there is no chance in hell a full race could be run without a single caution?

I have not watched NASCAR in probably 6 years, I went to the inaugural Homestead race as a VIP with some friends. There were no BS yellows that I can remember and Smoke won that day charging through the field from P20 or further back in a brilliant drive.

I remember there being maybe 1 yellow the entire race. I also remember laughing at the fans yelling to the cars liek the drivers could actually hear them.

The start of the race was the best part and a definate thing eveyone should experiance like going to a see a top fuel drag race, an Indy race and an F-1 race.

As far as F-1 becoming Nascar not even close. When F-1 starts bringin out a pace car for a flat tire I'll stop watching.

[legion]

The race at Joliet this summer went 100+ laps (out of a 150 lap race without a caution). I kept hearing about how boring the race was. (And I couldn't disagree.) The phantom caution near the end bunched the cars up and cause more cautions...

[VaSteve]

I have been to a couple of NASCAR Busch Series races. I had a lot of fun, but it *is* hard to follow, especially on a short course..you almost get dizzy watching it. I don't say I follow it, because I don't know the drivers, but it is fun to not see the same guy win every time. Sometimes the blue car wins, sometimes the white car. It's interesting to see the mid pack runners and watch them hash it out. In person, you can also watch the backs of the cars in the turns and watch who really is loose and pulls it back together....or not.

Yes, there are a lot of cautions, if a guy spins, they come out and clean up the marbles. I didn't realize it was staged. I know they do have a rule that says if you cause the caution even by pit in, you have to do a "punishment" lap so you don't get an advantage.

F1....I have tried to get into this, but I just can't. I won't say that I watch car racing for the "contact", but it does make it more interesting. In F1, if you have the slightest contact, the car explodes and you're out of the race. In NASCAR, it's fun to watch a guy that got punted still manage to compete.

[Jims5543]

Steve - F-1 is more of a Chess match on the track, so many things come into play. I will not go into it but its very entertaining once you understand the players, the politics, and the game being played outside the actual race.

I end up reading a lot when races are not on about on and off track happenings that only adds to the excitement of the race.

Plus your looking at Fighter Jets with wheels. Your right a little mistake and its all over for a F1 driver, contact is bad news. Driving 2 wide through a corner is a skill and tkaes nerves of steel.

[IROC]

Originally posted by Aerkuld
I think you have to understand the difference between racing and spectator sport. NASCAR is most definitely the latter. Everything is geared around the spectacle of the event and making it appear that it is a close 'race'.

I heard this very thing (personally) from a guy that drove NASCAR. He wasn't a regular, but filled in for a few races and was amazed at how the whole thing was geared to "the show" and not racing.

Mike

[Aerkuld]

Originally posted by VaSteve
...I didn't realize it was staged...

Staged isn't the right word. It's more like......urm.....manipulated.

Originally posted by VaSteve
F1....I have tried to get into this, but I just can't. I won't say that I watch car racing for the "contact", but it does make it more interesting. In F1, if you have the slightest contact, the car explodes and you're out of the race. In NASCAR, it's fun to watch a guy that got punted still manage to compete.

Jim's right, I think, comparing F1 to a chess match.
I think the difference is that a NASCAR race is effectively a stand-alone event, in that you can watch one race and 'get it'. Because the event in itself seems to have little effect on the rest of the season.
F1, on the otherhand, is more of a drawn out battle. One event often has a significant effect in the championship, but in order to see this you have to be following the season. When you do that you start to see the 'off-track' race to improve and develop the cars, engines, tires etc. as the season progresses. Follow this and you can see who is off the pace, who is catching up or dropping back. To me that makes it interesting.

I am sure that some people do follow NASCAR that closely, although probably not the majority. The difference is, as was mentioned earlier, NASCAR controlls the pace of development whereas in F1 the teams are pretty much left to their own devices while keeping within the rules.

[JCF]

Daytona, 10 laps to go and the lead car is 1/2 a lap ahead - Bill France throws his gold Rolex onto the track - " put out the yellow, debris on the track"
Old story told to me by a friend - don't know how true it is, but sounds right.

John

[URY914]

It is ALL about marketing. Not racing. What if the NFL sold space on the helmets to Ford, Home Depot and Wal-Mart?

I used to watch it and go to the races. But never again. Aren't they going to a spec car soon? I'm heard about them testing some kind of omni-car.