Dillon 650 reloader

snowman · 12-04-2006, 10:11 PM

I just blew a hole in my ceiling with my new Dillon 650 reloader. The machine seems to have a host of problems. Dosen't feed primers (they consistantly jam), didn't come with the correct components that were ordered for a 45-70. Has a primer stuck in a loading tube. Powder loads are inconsistant, ie 48 to 52 grains. Pretty big range. The primers twist in the feed, the last one causing a large explosion, blowing a hole in my ceiling, shredding the low primer sensor, the primer tamp rod, jamming the mechanism that feeds shells.

This is supposed to be a top of the line machine, but what I have seen so far is a sub par piece of junk. The basic design is sound, but the parts are made out of low quality white metal, stamped parts that lack precision, and horrible tolerances. If made properly, out of quality, precision parts, I could see a good machine, but what I have experienced so far is a total dissapointment.

ANyone else had a similar experience?

Joeaksa · 12-04-2006, 11:34 PM

If you want to get rid of it, will take it immediately.

Dillon makes the best reloaders that there are in the world. If its not feeding properly or fires a primer off then its not adjusted right or is dirty.

Are you using the automatic powder measure and how old is your powder?

Again, if you are not happy with it let me know. Need a Christmas present for me!

Joe

on2wheels52 · on2wheels52's Garage

Something must be wrong with the setup. You're a bit distant for me to assit. The Dillion support is very good.
Joe
I've ended up with an unused 650 w/casefeeder. I'm satisified with my old 550. PM me if you're interested.
Jim

Joeaksa · 12-05-2006, 03:52 AM

Jim,

Just emailed you.

Joe

Drdogface · Drdogface's Garage

Yeah, something is really wrong here and can be fixed. Dillon support is top notch. I have two 650's and one 550B. Not a problem with either. If I ever experience a problem, however, it is with primer feed disc..not the tube. As for powder, perhaps you have been using some that has clumped and a chunk is in the charge bar giving you erratic results. That has happened to me as well. May be a small clumped piece in the powder funnel in the powder die.

Seems Dillon would replace the primer tube free in a heart beat if need be.

Joeaksa · 12-05-2006, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Drdogface
Seems Dillon would replace the primer tube free in a heart beat if need be.

Ahemmm, if you pick up the phone and call the 800 number and simply tell them that you have some primers stuck in the primer tube, they will tell you to dump the whole mess in oil or such to demil it, and they will (have for me in the past) send you a FREE primer tube.

Dillon's customer service is simply the best in the business, period, bar none.

snowman · 12-05-2006, 02:45 PM

Ok Machine, primers and powder are brand new. IMR 3031 powder seems clean and free of clumps.

Called Dillon today and they are sending new parts to replace everything that blew up, free of charge.

Machine is not misadjusted as far as I can tell, but the primer components seem to be very crude, ie have ridges in the holes of the rotator plate, the first primer tube has stuck primers in it and the shell holder plate seems to rock up and down about 0.010" to 0.015" with the screw about as tight as possible and still have the thing rotate. THis causes the bullet seating depth to vary about 0.015" depending on which side the shell holder is up to the seating die. I would not think a factory adjusted machine that is brand new would have these problems.

on2wheels52 · on2wheels52's Garage

snowman
Could you fill us in on other reloaders you've used? I wouldn't expect a beginner to go with a 650.
3031 is not the easiest powder to run through a measure but can be dealt with.
re "factory adjusted machine", we have met the factory and he is us.
Hats off for needing a bunch of .45-70's, you got a Gatling gun or something?
Jim

Nostril Cheese · 12-05-2006, 03:44 PM

pardon my ignorance (as I am not a gun person) but if I understand correctly, a round fired off as you were making it?

Drdogface · Drdogface's Garage

Snowman,

As for the primer tube problem, I expect that you just accidentally had some primers turn side ways or hang up when transferring from the primer pick up tube to the primer tube on the machine. I wonder if the detonation of the primers was caused by trying to tamp them down with the plastic primer follower? Wasn't there so I dunno.

The bullet seating depth is adjusted by depth of die body and/or seating plug in the seating die. The shell plate should play no part in that. It needs to rotate freely so that the shell rim does not bind on the shell plate platform.

As has been said, Dillon's "NO BS" warrantee is exactly that. They will help and replace parts even if one admits it was their own fault...ask me how I know.

I'm in No. Cal...but right now wish I could just drive over and help out...I've had two of these machines for over ten years.

The powder you are using ... IMR 3031.. .is OK for 45/70 which was origianlly a black powder round. I hope you were/are using a proven load of a smokeless powder for this. !!! This powder and others for such a round are 'extruded' powders...i.e. little rod like shape...and can catch in the powder cut off bar. This can be a cause for varied weight in loads. It should not cause an accuracy problem. There is a LOT to know about using smokeless powder in such a large case however...excessiveley light loads can be as dangerous as heavy ones....esp with heavy bullets.

What type rifle are you shooting this in? Some will take the pressure and some not so well....esp. if it's an old rifle.

snowman · 08:23 PM

I am shooting them in a Marlin 1895ss, a modern lever action rifle. 300g Hornady jacketed HP bullets. THe explosion happened after two rounds were completed, everything was full and progressing and then one of the primers was inserted in the case sideways. When the tray was turned to the next position, the powder dispensing one, the primer detonated. This set off a chain reaction and all of 55 large rifle primers went off, all at once. Note that I was being very careful to fully push the lever forward to fully seat the primers. All four shells with primers installed were correct, ie primer seated about 0.004" below flush. The entire primer system is history, including the steel case that protects the user. THe next post shows photos of whats left, the larger pieces.

snowman · 08:17 PM

The shell that started the event. Note the primer was installed sideways.

The primer tube is now welded to the steel protection tube as well as filled with expanded primers. Sort of lucky that the powder did not ignite and start a big fire.

onewhippedpuppy · 12-05-2006, 08:28 PM

Are they reimbursing you for your soiled pants as well?

snowman · 12-05-2006, 08:42 PM

My 19 year old daughter and her boyfriend were in the room at the time. I said look at this cool reloader and then proceeded to the big bang. Their ears are still ringing. I am to old and deaf to notice.

Joeaksa · 12-05-2006, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nostril Cheese
pardon my ignorance (as I am not a gun person) but if I understand correctly, a round fired off as you were making it?

Had a .45-70 round gone off he would not be here to talk about it. This is a fairly large round and can do some damage.

Years ago I shot this caliber alot. Loved taking it to the range. The high power guys were always there shooting away. One shot from the .45-70 and they always stopped anything they were doing and watched. The noise is massive and you can almost watch the round go downrange to the target, its that large.

Viewing the shell that caused this mess does show that the primer was not inserted correctly in the casing. Have never had that happen but then am religious about things like this when reloading. As well I always do reloading alone, no television, eating or ANY other distractions in the area. This can be a lot of fun but also can be very dangerous and can bite very hard if things go wrong.

Agree with "on2wheels52" and it may have been setup at the factory but always should be taken down at home and confirm everything on each setup and each of the stations before using again. The 650 has two pins and a plate that you can pull out with the dies and such so that you can switch calibers easily. Even so I still start from scratch with every change like this, its just not worth assuming anything when reloading.

Drdogface · Drdogface's Garage

Snow,
Good explanation. Late now...I'll get back to you tomorrow. NOT your fault...glad no one really hurt.

Drdogface · Drdogface's Garage

Snowman,

Now I understand what happened. I have also had primers turn sideways like that but thankfully never had one go off like that. Given the position of that shell I really don't know why it set off the whole tube but guess it was just a fast chain reaction. Dillon will surely replace everything and you'll be back in business, albeit perhaps a bit tentative about starting again understandably. That, and other Dillons, are the best on the market and this was just a fluke.

The rifle you are using is darn good one. Many of my friends and I shoot really old original Win. and Marlins and one must be careful with any smokeless powder in that old steel which is why I asked.

Sorry this all happened but like I say, I think it was just a fluke and likely won't happen again. That forward stroke on the handle for primer seating needs to be slightly firm but not quick or overly hard..just enough to seat that primer in the cup. Did Dillon question you and give any in depth explanation or advice? Just curious cuz they are typically so knowledgable and responsible.

dhoward · dhoward's Garage

Don't know if this helps or not, but my technique has always been to pause slightly during the primer seating. Primer seating, and pocket cleaning are two of the most important steps when manufacturing reliable match rounds, and I find myself really trying to 'feel' the primer seat. As I make it a distinct effort and motion, I can always feel when a primer is cocked. Doesn't happen often, but it does occasionally. Never had a stack go off.
Would like to have seen it from afar.
+10 on Dillon, and their support. It's outstanding.
I have had good success with C-H progressives too...

Joeaksa · 12-06-2006, 08:02 AM

Dave,

I do the same thing. You can feel the primer sliding in the case if you have done it enough and once or twice I have felt a crunch and stopped. Nothing happened and I cleared everything and started over, but know what you mean.

Do not want a primer tube going off... have had enough excitement in that area before.

Drdogface · Drdogface's Garage

Very good point...I do the same and should have mentioned that. You can, in fact, feel the difference between a primer in the right position (unless it's totally upside down) and one on its side. The slight pause is important. Thanks for adding that. I'm still kinda surprised, though, that a primer going off in the primer seating position would chain all the way back to the stack as there are a few behind it in the disc...then the stack. Primers do have a lot more pop than most people think.