The question was posed in response to Japanese american internment. If you can't see that and it's ongoing consequences for what it is, then you are choosing to ignore the obvious.

As for my own situation, as I have said, I routinely run into old-boy difficulties which is solely a race creation rather than something administered by the gubmint. However, I would add, that the institutionalization of prejudice is being added to by the TSA and "profiling". We could go on and on about searches/delays, others being more suspicious and how that engenders probs down the line, but I sense those that don't want to believe, won't.

Ok, I accept that there are "old boy" issues in our nation and likely will be for some time. It is unfortunate, but it also has been ingrained in our culture for thousands of years and will probably take hundreds of years to get rid of.

Now for the next question. Japanese people aside (since there isn't any affirmative action for Japanese people that I know of, I am considering their situation moot to this conversation), why should we use a government policy to offset something which is not a government problem? In other words, affirmative action is a requirement of everyone in the US which appears to be in response to the continued actions of a few in the US. Meanwhile, innocent bystanders are getting pulled into the fray because they get denied access to the education of their choice. The instances are rare, but do occur.

To me, affirmative action is a wrongheaded attempt at "making things right". It is a noble idea, but one which fails miserably in its implementation. A policy which was supposed to improve equality simply lowers the bar for some and perpetuates the stereotype that minority students can't cut it when put head to head against white students. It also fosters resentment and division from those students who see it as an unfair crutch given to someone solely based on skin color.

Again, I would challenge anyone of minority descent who is under the age of 40 to tell me a single way in which their lives were adversely affected by the policies of the US government due to their race. I don't think it occurs and in fact I think the exact opposite occurs. I can show you multiple 20-something white people who were denied education at a school of their choice by a policy mandated by the US government based on their skin color.

And don't forget that the ancestors in Africa who sold the slaves, are still doing it today. Why doesn't anyone go after the tribes who captured and sold the slaves to the white man??? While slavory was and still is wrong, it was the best thing that happened to people of the time.

Fastpat, I really must aplogise, I'm a Douglas and it probably was us that hung and shot your people back in Scotland. We tended to concentrate on hammering the Camerons, but anyone who affiliated with them we hammered also.

I'm not racist, but I have been beaten nearly to death for being white. Since then a similar situation occured so I pulled a gun on the black guys. The look of absolute terror in their eyes was incredbile - I really got off on that. Now I see myself as some sort of white knight fighting the forces of evil, as to whether the bad guy is black or white. A statistic in this country is a white guy is 47 times more likely to be assulted by a black guy than a black guy is by a white. Admittedly I'm doing my damnest to turn these statistics around. Ha, an amusing incident a few weeks ago. I was driving along and became aware of a big samoan guy in the next lane driving next to me staring at me and wording f* you etc for no reason other than me being an upper middle class white boy. So I yelled back at him "f* off sooty". He pointed to the side of the road so we could sort it out. When he came over to the car like he was going to punch me I blasted him in the face with the fire extingisher then got out of car and whacked him over the head with it really hard. That was two weeks ago and the police haven't rang up so no one must have got my rego, hee hee.

Wow thanks for the laugh, the word isolationism did not appear in the 1930's It is commonly used prior to Teddy Roosevelt's term and was commonly used in speeches by him and others such as President W Wilson. My use of the word is correct. Your definition is but a splinter of the words definition and common use. But Im sure it appeases your ego for the moment. Now... quit playing silly word games and try to get back on topic.

Radical, Extremist... what ever... you love the milk and honey but talk smack every chance you get, thats a hypocrite.

If we take it as read that slavery is not a goog thing, so we will do a whole bunch of stuff to make up for it etc etc..
So can someone please tell me when the statute of limitations is up on it and we can stop? 2 more years? 10? 20? 200? Never?

We Brits don't hold any more grudges against Italians for taking us as slaves for hundreds of years.
Actually we were probably better treated way back then 'cos we were property and had value.
After the Romans left, we were just poor and of no value. (Public floggings, executing starving children for stealing bread and so on).
As the guy in Roots said "Where I come from we don't have slaves, only poor white folk".

It is far to easy for an individual to blame someone or something other than themselves for there lot in life.
There is a show on at the moment called "Trial by Choir" I have lost count how many times one kid has said he is like he is because he has no Father. Well join the club, me neither, Foster homes, yes that as well. I was on the "child in danger" list for a while. So what? IT UP TO YOU, YOU WHINING LITTLE A**H**LE.
The world does NOT owe you a living, and what business owner of any race, colour or Creed is going to give you a job looking and acting like you do.
Rant over......feel better now.........!!!

It's easy to say, "Chin up, little buckaroo, get over it." However, try saying that to the many Shiites, Sunni, Kurds, Jews, Croatian, Serbs, Tutsi, Palestinians, et al who have been on the short end of the stick at one time or another. Ever had your family slaughtered or your culture taken away? Some things take a long time to heal - sometimes generations, sometimes never. This is a good argument for not doing these things in the first place. At the end of the day, Karma is pretty strong.

Sherwood

So if it's Karma, then someone did something to deserve what they are getting now.
Rika

... or will be getting.

Sherwood

At what point does this end though?? Do I have the right as someone of English descent to demand special treatment from the French, Germans, Scots, Spanish ,Turks, etc, etc, etc for killing and enslaving my ancestors? At what point do you say, "Ok, enough is enough."

"At what point does this end though??

I can't speak for others. What do you want to end, memories of relatives and loved ones killed or calls for compensation, justified or not? I'd like to provide a black and white answer. Unfortunately, with issues like this, easy answers are not easy to come by.

There are probably some universal truths for the prevention of this happening, or at least minimizing this happening in the future. We would probably do well to keep this in mind whenever we (our govt., our neighborhood, etc.) decide to "fix" something.

Sherwood

Obviously I am asking when the culture of guilt ends. When has enough time passed, how many generations does it take to say "Ok, we're moving on now."

Obviously memories of ancestors should never "end", not sure where you got that one from...

I think some sort of answer is important. If you leave it open ended and say "Whenever it is right", right for who? Right for every single person of that descent?

My position in this entire debate is that the culture of racial guilt is actually hindering the black community. It is keeping them tethered to the white power base, reinforcing the notion that they need "assistance" to make it in the world.

Rick the last time that Britain was "subjugated' was 500+ years ago. Rosa Parks and MLK were 50 years ago. Japanese internment was 60 years ago. Chinese weren't allowed to be US citizens 60 years ago. And Chinese and Japanese were at one time part of the percentages assigned to diversity (though small). However, asians as group are not vocal (part of the culture).

Here's a question for you that you can relate to. How many asian (whether chinese, japanese, indian etc) male physicians by percentage do you know. Now ask yourself honestly, if the same percentage of male asian physicians is represented by the entertainment industry in their medical shows. If you include women, the percentage goes up, but no where near the truth. There are very few strong asian male characterizations in the media that aren't criminals (type casting), that are always beaten (in hand-to-hand karate etc fighting) by the all conquering and godly white male. Please...

BTW do you know if you're pure saxon, norman, franco etc?

So now the white man is responsible for central casting?

Your post is the exact problem. Shut up and get busy improving your life.

Edit: I grew up in California, must of my buddies were Asian...two families who were interned during WWII. My Mother's side of the family are in the minority. We (my friends and family) have all been successful because we never stopped to think it was anyone's responsibility but ours to be successful..

Edit again (because this whole thread Pi$$es me off): My best friend is a retired Marine LtCol, as dark as a starless night. He grew up in a very poor town in Michigan, no doubt subjected to slings and arrows most the posters on this board can only read about.
We have talked about every racial issue he has faced in his life. His response is always to move forward, never stop. The day we all let this BS go will be the first step to moving forward.

"Shut up" - What a thoroughly adult post Seahawk!

I have a more than adequate life thank you (shall we do the my house is bigger than your house thing?). If you don't understand the post, and its pointing out that underlying attitudes still exist YOU are part of the problem and the reason why people still have this issue.

Your friend "soldiers on" hoping that it will get better (I do too). But we all know that the "squeaky wheel gets the grease". THAT is why asian men are underrepresented in Hollywood or in any advertising media.

EDIT: It is yet another example of how things are different for people of who are not caucasian in response to a "how are things different for people who are not caucasian" question. I know it's tough, but think about it for a while. What if every show had black men as the heroes and whites were only ever portrayed as poorly spoken bad guys. Just like continous exposure to violence engenders desensitization to violence and its outcomes, continous exposure to stereotypes does the same.

Peter,

Try as I might, I continue to be flummoxed. I am not part or parcel of the problem. YOU are. I have never allowed stereotypes to be a burden.

And my friend doesn't "soldier" on, he is a Marine.

You need to crawl out of your bunker version of stereotypes. Set yourself free.

Art I think you are still missing my point. I am not arguing that there is no racism in America. Of course there is. What I am arguing is that the very people who are supposed to be benefiting from the "fairness" policies of our government are actually being hurt by them.

If the ultimate goal is a society where talent and qualifications are the sole reason for a person's success or failure, why does a policy that does exactly the opposite help us achieve that goal?

I'll take a stab at world peace or anti-rascism.

An ethnic, cultural or religious group should no longer feel singled out when, over a period of time, there are NO/few incidents, accounts, reports or signs of favoritism, bias, hate crimes, job or housing descrimination, unequal rights and biased legislation or practices. Until that time, the people in power (whomever they are), have the upper hand, don't they?

I was referring to Sudan. If that applies here in the US, it is a coincidence.

The US settlers of the 1500s were themselves in the minority position. That's why they risked so much in venturing over. 500 years later, I doubt many of them still feel oppressed. When did that collective feeling of oppression subside for them? The answer is either in the above paragraph and/or when they took the opportunity to oppress other groups to one extent or another (Native Americans, Chinese, Irish, blacks, etc.).

Here's something from Encarta:
"...men routinely raped Indian women, and when Native Americans retaliated, whites escalated the violence. California went from being one of the most populous regions of Native America to being one of the least populous, as violence, disease, and impoverishment reduced California’s Indian population from nearly 250,000 in 1700 to less than 5,000 by 1900."

When do Native Americans have to "get over it"?

Sherwood

Don't know what you're still flummoxed about, ignoring stereotyping and its inherent racism is in fact contributing to the problem. As a laissez faire approach, the condoning of such activity is allows it to persist. "Let us all stick our heads in the sand now, it doesn't really affect me." A great way to go about living.

Semper fi . . . whatever. My military branch is better than your military branch......

This is reality, if you think it is bunker, so be it. If our situations were reversed, I suggest you might not be so flippant. Raising children who are trying to "fit in" really raised my own awareness of this stuff (which I frankly ignored previously).

Rick,
I agree that in some respects AffirmAction is not successful. However, some is better than none, and that's where I think we'd be without it. Don't know when it will have outlived its usefulness. But, it is instructive to note that only now, 100yrs after suffrage, women are getting to the top in many big companies/industries.

I feel sorry for you...I really do. You assume much, understand little. I have never ignored stereotyping, mainly because I have been subjected to it.
You may want to pull your head out of the sand.