USN conducting massive buildup off Iran

[fastpat]

Originally posted by john70t
And of course, while the US selectivly bombs some palaces and airports from a parked carrier, Russia and China will stand aside and let their oil supply go up in smoke.

That's what the current smear campaign directed towards Russia is supposed to counter, it's working with the rubes.

Oh, did someone mention China has the a huge standing army and bachlor demographic and is iching at invading a little island off it's coast? And is newly wealthy from US CEO's cutting out the middleman(American middle class) to fund their golden parachutes?

You mean like Diane Feinstein's husband? Perish the thought, Taiwan can defend itself, China is dependent in many ways on it's independence.

Did anyone wonder why that ex-KGB agent was killed with the trigger of Russian suitcase bombs.... of which so many are missing?

The Polonium isotope concerned has a half life of 138 days. The mythological "suitcase" nukes have been missing for 20 years at least. Polonium is highly toxic, producing cancer's within 5 to 10 years after short exposure, quicker if inhaled or ingested.

[Zendalar]

Cough cough..psst: Iran just switched its "oil currency" to Euros.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Zendalar
Cough cough..psst: Iran just switched its "oil currency" to Euros.

Well, Iraq did that just prior to the bombs falling, so I guess we know what's next.

[snowman]

Sooner is better than later. We developed nukes from scratch in just 3 years. It had never been done before; the theory was still being worked out. To say that Iran will take more than one year is a gamble. They don't even have to work out the theory, if in doubt just add a little extra U238 and guaranteed they have a bomb. Any good high school scholar can work out what’s required to make a nuke nowadays. The rest of it is just simple engineering. A lot has changed since 1943, what was a real feat back then is now withing the reach of high school kids.

Does Israel really have a bomb? No one knows for sure. As to Iran having one, NFW will we ever let them have the chance given their stated intentions.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by snowman
Does Israel really have a bomb? No one knows for sure. As to Iran having one, NFW will we ever let them have the chance given their stated intentions.

Yeah, that's why every country on the planet has nuclear weapons, snowy, they're a piece of cake to build.

Israeli Prime Minister Ohmert stated that they have nuclear capability recently, and that fact along with the numbers was revealed by an Israeli weapons scientist years ago.

[m21sniper]

I agree with snowman.

I have this crazy personal policy: When someone(Iran) tells me they want to kill(nuke) me, i take them seriously.

[Jim Richards]

Originally posted by m21sniper
I agree with snowman.

I have this crazy personal policy: When someone(Iran) tells me they want to kill(nuke) me, i take them seriously.

When did they tell you? Are they targeting Philly? Will they wait until after the playoffs? I kinda like the Iggles and pick them to win the NFC.

[m21sniper]

I like the Iggles this year too. Chicago(bang, bang) and Nawlins' would be wise to look out.

At any rate, the president of Iran has not been shy in telling the world he will immediately nuke israel.

If that happens- like it or not- we will become immediately embroiled and Americans will die in large numbers. Whether or not i specifically am among them or not, die they will. I'd rather nip that in the bud if at all possible.

[snowman]

Originally posted by fastpat
Yeah, that's why every country on the planet has nuclear weapons, snowy, they're a piece of cake to build.

Israeli Prime Minister Ohmert stated that they have nuclear capability recently, and that fact along with the numbers was revealed by an Israeli weapons scientist years ago.

Prime Minister Ohmert did NOT state that Israel had nukes, he made a simple slip of the tong implying that they had them and later clarified that they did not. There is NO proof of Israel having ever detonated an A bomb and if they have not detonated one they DO NOT HAVE ONE. One cannot even make a firecracker without testing it, let alone an A bomb.

Unfortunately nukes ARE a piece of cake to build, IF you have the fissionable material. I know as I minored in Nuke physics in college. Its that task and that task only that takes huge volumes of material and equipment to produce. Again we did it from scratch in just 3 years in the 1940's, do you really think that it could take much longer now, especially given all the unknowns are now known. And technology is now light years ahead of anything in the 40's. We had some real good scientists back then, Iran has some real good scientists now, maybe not quite as good as ours were, but good nuff.

I would suggest that we leak the secrets of the neutron bomb to the Israelis. They could then wipe out Iran and leave the oil wells intact. While they are at it they could go for a few other mideastern countries and we could have all the oil to ourselves. Now that fits with the Bush conspirators thoughts, exactly. If Bush is going to be blamed for doing it for the oil anyway he might as well do it for real.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by m21sniper
If that happens- like it or not- we will become immediately embroiled and Americans will die in large numbers. Whether or not i specifically am among them or not, die they will. I'd rather nip that in the bud if at all possible.

No we won't, there is no mutual defense treaty between Israel and the US government, nor is there likely to be one in the future.

If Iran were to nuke Israel, just one more thing will happen and the nuclear exchange will be over. That one additional thing will be the Israeli response than takes out every major city in Iran.

The Iranians know that, therefore they will not nuke Israel.

[m21sniper]

Originally posted by fastpat
Let's see, Iran will attack Israel with a primitive nuclear device in 8 to 10 years, that's the Israel that has had nuclear weapons for over 20 years, has approximately 400 of them now, and delivery systems for them all, and will probably enhance it's capability for the next 8 to 10 years as well.

Do I really need to explain to you why Iran won't attack Israel within several human lifetimes, and probably not ever?

Further, We (meaning Americans) have absolutely no vested interest of any kind what occurs between Israel and Iran; and we (meaning the US government) don't have such an interest again largely because there is NO treaty obligation between the two governments.

There, I hope that helps you.

Iran is not the US. We don't send suicide bombers amidst crowds of innocents knowing it will cost us our lives in a petty act of tit-for-tat revenge.

Iranians do.

And if Israel is nuked, whether we have a vested interest or not, this nation will go to war in a very big way, and i'd rather not see that either.

[m21sniper]

Originally posted by fastpat
[B]No we won't, there is no mutual defense treaty between Israel and the US government, nor is there likely to be one in the future.

If nukes land on Israeli soil half the world will end up at war because murphy's law dictates that a chain of worst-case unavoidable reactions will occur.

Murphy's law is infallable.

If Iran were to nuke Israel, just one more thing will happen and the nuclear exchange will be over. That one additional thing will be the Israeli response than takes out every major city in Iran.

The Iranians know that, therefore they will not nuke Israel.

The Irainians regularly employ suicide bombers, and their prez claims to buy into the Koran story telling of a confrontation with the west.

All you have to do is ask him. He'll tell you himself.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by m21sniper
Iran is not the US. We don't send suicide bombers amidst crowds of innocents knowing it will cost us our lives in a petty act of tit-for-tat revenge.

They don't do that either. "Suicide bombers" are an answer for being attacked by a nation's conventional military against whom you haven't an equivalent military. The US government has in it's past sent in "suicide soldiers" frequently, to assault machine gun positions, defuse bombs, blow up pill boxes, and so forth. There were hundreds of clandestine agents dropped into europe that simply disappeared, all on missions know to be "suicidal" in risk.

Iranians do.

And if Israel is nuked, whether we have a vested interest or not, this nation will go to war in a very big way, and i'd rather not see that either.

No, America will not go to war on Israel's behalf. The US government might attempt to motivate such action, but it wil fail. I, and tens of thousands of others, will firmly resist that.

[m21sniper]

Originally posted by fastpat
They don't do that either. "Suicide bombers" are an answer for being attacked by a nation's conventional military against whom you haven't an equivalent military.

LOL! Suicide bombers are largely militarily inneffective. They are little more than a political statement and act of revenge.

The US government has in it's past sent in "suicide soldiers" frequently, to assault machine gun positions, defuse bombs, blow up pill boxes, and so forth. There were hundreds of clandestine agents dropped into europe that simply disappeared, all on missions know to be "suicidal" in risk.

A 'suicidal mission' with even the smallest chance for survival is hardly the same as a suicide bomber, which any sane person knows. Comparing a Sturmpioniere assaulting a trenchworx to a Kamakaze or a Suicide bomber with a C-4 vest is completely inaccurate in my military estimation.

No, America will not go to war on Israel's behalf. The US government might attempt to motivate such action, but it wil fail. I, and tens of thousands of others, will firmly resist that.

Congress is Israel's biitch, and the place has always been a lightning rod, and like a think-tank bud of mine has always said, "If one flies, they all fly."

If Israel is nuked IMO it'll be ugly, despite your assurances to the contrary.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by m21sniper
LOL! Suicide bombers are largely militarily inneffective. They are little more than a political statement and act of revenge.



A 'suicidal mission' with even the smallest chance for survival is hardly the same as a suicide bomber, which any sane person knows. Comparing a Sturmpioniere assaulting a trenchworx to a Kamakaze or a Suicide bomber with a C-4 vest is completely inaccurate in my military estimation.



Congress is Israel's biitch, and the place has always been a lightning rod, and like a think-tank bud of mine has always said, "If one flies, they all fly."

If Israel is nuked IMO it'll be ugly, despite your assurances to the contrary.

Ain't nobody going to nuke Israel, unless Israel attacks another country with nukes, then all bets are off.

Israel does need "strong encouragement" to stop stealing Palestinian land, and to return all that they've stolen from them. That can occur diplomatically.

[m21sniper]

I was just reading the other day that the Jews are opening some new "Settlements" in the Palestinian territories. Seems that a side effect of the Hamas attacks on Israel a few months back has been to cause a resurgence of Jewish ultra-nationalists.

Ah yes, the law of unintended consequences in action. The Pal's are their own worst enemies. They might as well have Ghengis Khan as a PR man.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by m21sniper
I was just reading the other day that the Jews are opening some new "Settlements" in the Palestinian territories. Seems that a side effect of the Hamas attacks on Israel a few months back has been to cause a resurgence of Jewish ultra-nationalists.

Ah yes, the law of unintended consequences in action. The Pal's are their own worst enemies. They might as well have Ghengis Khan as a PR man.

Well, perhaps, but what it does on an increasing level is inform us that the Palestinians have been correct all along, that the Israeli's want them all dead and will slowly shove them into the ocean, or mass graves unless something happens to stop them. That something will have to be total withdrawal of US government support for Israel.
http://www.counterpunch.org/finkelstein05012006.html

Also some readings on Irgun and the Stern Gang might be in order for you. The Israeli's have been killing Palestinians much longer, and in greater numbers, than the other way around.

[m21sniper]

I don't think the Palestinians or the Jews are 'correct'. It's not Palestinian land anyway. Jordan swallowed up the "real" Palestine, a convenient little fact that everyone glosses over for whatever reason.

Jet Jordan house the Palestinians, as it was Jordan that snatched their lands to begin with. The Palestinians are just puppets for every two-bit bully state in the region.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by m21sniper
I don't think the Palestinians or the Jews are 'correct'. It's not Palestinian land anyway.

Yes, it was Palestinian land. Just how do you think it became land belonging to Jews from europe?

Jordan swallowed up the "real" Palestine, a convenient little fact that everyone glosses over for whatever reason.

The good, ole' British and French gave a large part of Palestine to Jordan, that's correct, but that doesn't justify people from europe claiming a right to land that no one in their family has any connection to of any kind.

Let Jordan house the Palestinians, as it was Jordan that snatched their lands to begin with. The Palestinians are just puppets for every two-bit bully state in the region.

I'm all for encouraging Jordan to vacate lands than don't belong to them just as much as for demanding the Israeli's vacant what isn't theirs either.

A large part of Israel is not legally Israeli land. What's worse, the theft of land is continuing.

[snowman]

Land belongs to the victors. Just ask the american indians. The Jews now own land legitmately lost in the past two wars of aggression by the arabs. Thats the way war works, the victor writes the rules, and thats why Pat is wrong and the south will never rise again.

If anyone nukes someone and that anyone is not a major player, then some major player will nuke the country that initiated the whole mess. Why? Self preservation. A strong message that using Nukes is not acceptable. MAD will assure the major players will not initiate action among themselves On the other hand a major player using a nuke on a small country, the consequences are anyone’s guess. I suspect strong world condemnation and not much else.

I am against war, but if war is necesary I say use Nukes or whatever means to win, win big, and to lose no americans doing so. War is war, not a game. Is anyone REALLY going to argue with a country that just wiped another country off t he face of he earth?