When I raced my black 914-6, car # was 52 (as was my blue and yellow "home built 935" )
Jeff's 911 was car #00 silver with brumos style grey/blue stripes

pics of the 914
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1562440954.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1562441424.jpg

I will look, as that doesn’t jump right to my mind! I have also 600 rolls of undeveloped film from about 1985-digital age! I wasn’t at that enduro race, but have been going to vintage events since 1979 at Riverside!

That is one nice looking 914! All black and sinister with RSR Fuchs!

TCracing - I wrote a brief intro to a Mulholland based film and it's close to what you suggested. You can find it on page 351 (near the top). You mentioned that you have interviewed someone who knew Charlie, would you be able to clear something up? There was a poster that stated Charlie never drank and that some of the stories were not possible, because that's not who Charlie was (sorry can't remember what page).

If what this poster posted is indeed fact, then my take is there were 2 sides of Charlie. Around the house/family Charlie and Racer Charlie. This also gives Charlie a lot of depth character wise when speaking in film terms. If I'm way off base, sorry, I mean no disrespect.

Jeff Hail - The road being the main character of a doc is brilliant.

I have 2 Canon DSLR's. They are not the best camera's on the planet, but they are suitable for interviews. I do not have lights or audio equipment, but if there is anyone with lights, audio equipment, or anything that may be useful that is willing to team up, let's get the ball rolling.

Maybe it get's scaled back and instead of a full length doc we shoot and edit interviews to post up on a youtube page. I know there have been several attempts at a youtube page before, but let's give it another go. If a youtube page is started, I would strongly suggest consolidating all Mulholland related video clips and posting them on said page, so interested parties won't have to spend hours looking for this video or that video clip (videos will get appropriate credit(s) and links if desired).

One thing I've learned working production is when shooting a doc the filmmaker will often find a story(s) or a plot point(s) that they were unaware of. You never know what you may encounter when doing a doc or where the story may end up taking you or the viewer, so let's pull our resources, set up some interviews, and roll cameras.

I was reading the LA Times online today and on the top of the page was an advertisement for a podcast from LA Times studio called "Larger Than Life." The tagline is; "A new documentary podcast about L.A street racer Big Willie Robinson."

Seems to me that what I have suggested isn't too far off base and that there is a market for LA Street racing stories. Maybe it's time for one or more of the players to contact the LA Times or a Producer.

I haven't posted here in a long time, but the bump and latest comments/photos got me to thinking. My uncle Cliff H. raced an MGC in west coast SCCA events followed by a Legrand MkV (I think) Formula B car and then a GRD Formula Atlantic. In 1975, mid season he joined the Canadian Players Formula Atlantic series renting, then buying a March 75B from Doug Shierson. He followed on with a 76B, 77B, 78B, and 79B. He then went on to run F3 and then F2 in the early 80's in Europe. He also did some other spot racing in sports cars and sports racers. I wonder if any of you guys know him from back then. Still lives in SoCal.

Correction: This is not Dick's License. It's his annual waiver card. It does however show is license level, Regional, Divisional or National.
<br>http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1562706452.jpg

Correct, and I just said license, but ID! Just one piece of many of my friends life, that I saved/have. I do also have one of his actual SCCA licenses thou!

He lived on Stanley Hills Drive- Laurel Canyon! The person that shared info lived a few houses down, born a few years apart!

He ran cars and bikes 1950s/60s (the friend said 1950s, but that doesn’t jive with his age!)! He unfortuately was not a drinker, not crazy, wild or reckless as claimed (many of us don’t think we were reckless either, Charlie did die in his Corvette in a known Canyon at age 37)! His friend described him more as a Priest/Guru type of the discipline! I mentioned in threads, we swept with brooms Turnbull Canyon, it was claimed he did that too up on Mulholland. At Turnbull we had some spots, where leaves or rain runoff got dirt on the pavement! Do consider we weren’t ever trying to run side by side or wheel to wheel. It was our thing to do a hill climb type format for FTD. But I am sure people did try to race, but pretty tight up there, but the fast cars could take people up there. Naturally someone that could handle a big block Corvette would look really fast to many! The truck was actually a 1/2 Ton GMC pickup with a V-6! His peak of racing hardcore was with a 55 Ford Coupe that was hot rodded out, stripped, he was a fabricator and liked to engineer, but worked in a regular garage, doing standard tune-ups and car repairs. This is the car that he drove against some of the earliest Cobras up there! He got the Vette in the Mid-60s it is claimed and built it as quick as possible, on shoestring budget! Newer Corvettes weren’t cheap yet, so I think he got it years later. Cars weren’t getting flares yet really, until the early 70s. The first factory flared Corvettes were around late 1968! His friend doesn’t think he would have had the money to take it to like Guldstrand, plus Guldstrand didn’t open his shop till 1968 (my Father was invited to the opening). Other facts, he did not own a Hillman, but a close friend had a Simca that they played with. Charlie died in Bouquet canyon in the Corvette.

Some guy wrote that Charlie was inspired by Guldstrand working on the Grand Sports, but he (Dick) wasn’t involved in that! He raced the 1966 HD L88 prototype Penske Vette at Daytona 24, and was paired with Thompson in the #001 car pictured in front of Hoopers shop at Sebring 12. Penske threw him off the team, then he did land the opportunity with James Garner one race only AIR Corvette Team! Dick wasn’t considered for the Lola T-70, and basically wasn’t happy and started into his new venture Shop. Garner moved his Headquarters to Sunset strip and garaged the Lola race cars at Riverside. Guldstrand took some of the money he earned, and took over the AIR garage, starting his business there in Culver City! In between Penske and Garner, on the name of being with Penske, he tried an Indy car ride, and NASCAR, but was nearly killed again in a major crash. Then he landed the job at Dana Chevrolet as he was recovering. He was passed over there for the Trans Am and the Race car drives, as the Owner wanted him to run the Performance Center. He did run the 1967 Camaro in weekend SCCA AS Class events!

Funny like on the Grand Sport- the former Sebring 66 racer in front of Doug Hoopers shop I pictured, that itself is a funny story! Doug campaigned a Grand Sport replica, body done by Bruno’s. The guy who bought the real Grand Sport took it to Doug for consultation, thinking the real one was the car Hooper had driven! No, but Hooper got the job to manage the restoration, and did a great job, farming things out around the Valley! A Donovan block was used to build out a worthy engine, as the L88 was long gone, missing!

Charlie was still a solid racer, who earned a reputation! Most of the guys in the heyday of the Clandestine Racing most famous days of the mid-70s when those articles came out, Charlie wasn’t really racing anymore, but definitely if he encountered anyone, we was willing to show his stuff! He died Dec 1982, so he was still running it fast thru the canyons (RIP at 37). The car was sold to him used from a Stuntman who worked on the movie Ronin, and was a 1966, claimed to be Marina Blue (not offered for 1966), so I believe it was Nassau Blue! He did flare it, the car was on the rough side. I haven’t had a chance to run down the SCCA Old Timer event yet! The guys running the Slaloms in the mid-70s had big dollars into their cars. The early 70s, not yet, as the race wears weren’t really out there yet for the public! The 1972 year was a major leap in Race mods on the Corvette chassis spurred on by the Camel GT series (IMSA).

The true Charlie not being a crazed drinking wild man really plays against the legend tall tale! It kind of complicates things for a true historical telling of who he was in a movie!

I did hear from another Corvette guy who doesn’t want to be public, that thought the kids activities were dangerous, noted his wife with their kids drove that road. That he actually called the police himself on the Mulholland racers! He would pick the litter left from the bad groups hanging out down in front of his property, if he saw one of the a-hole racers, he would chuck an empty beer can or something at them, but that was while standing there with his broom, not while driving.

Some of the dates I find are off! Considering the 1951 GMC. Charlie was born April 4th, 1945, so drivers license age 16 (1961). The King of the Mountain movie was 1981, and some say he died 4 years after that, but it is hard to argue with Find a Grave and 1982.

I love chasing dates on stories, so Ronin was 1998. They employed 300 stunt drivers for the filming, and most of those were French guys including F1 star (UOP Shadow is how I best remember him- Jean Pierre Jarier. Thus how many American drivers could there have been in Europe, very few! So I look up Skipp Sudduth and he was a car enthusiast and had a few Corvettes, along with some other fast rides! He drove most of the lead scenes in that movie, so that would be the source of Charlie car! Probably took it to that garage from the studio lots, were he did a lot of movies, and a Charlie admired it, so one day the guy sold it to him, as a guy like that flipped rides to the latest and greatest. Edit: I found one internet article of a stunt driver named that sold him the car?

As I am trying to give perspective here from the Corvette world, a 1966 Big Block and its oiling problems usually did not fair well in road racing! By 1968 they knew how to remedy that! I bet the car was used, and did not have its original engine. C2 Sting Rays were cheap then, as most wanted the C3 Stingrays (Shark body)! I bet Charlie didn’t have this car till around 1970. And he tried to go real track racing.

I knew Big Willie from the Brotherhood Raceway days down on Terminal Island ripping people with our 12 sec. VW Ghia. That would be a great cult film subject, as him and Tomika were a very interesting couple in their Superbird drag hemi cars!

I don’t remember any black people, when I was driving our 1970 429SCJ Country Squire to the gambling entertainment of the older guys in the Whittier Blvd street racing scene! My Father for my privilege to drive, made me go fill up all of the cars 63 356, 68 Vette, the Dragon Wagon Country Squire. I made friends with a gas station Owner, that put a private pump in the back of his station for his friends to avoid the gas lines! That bought me time to go do some racing, tank up the cars, bring them home over the hill and home to Hacienda Heights full! The Special install 429 SCJ blew up, so got a 460, putting the 429 heads on that to raise compression, hooker sides, Ansen mags!

But guys talked about the old days! I ran the Box Factory with the Wagon, I ran Nabiscos with the Ghia years later, and Four Lanes near Valley with my fathers Vette or stop light to stop light stuff like on Lambert or Bloomfield. If I had my Dad’s vette, naturally I went to show off driving it up on Turnbull, to be the big shot!

Back to Big Willie, they staged races down in the parking lot south of Whittier on Mulberry/Santa age Springs Rd at the park- I think it was York Field in Santa Fe Springs, north of Los Nietos. That was before my time! But Big Willie and crew came to run the Whittier Boulevard crowd a lot.

Time is my killer, but with a history like that, he should be in my literature! Not knowing the last names, doesn’t help my memory! That is a pretty serious driver, going up to the newest cars each year! Impressive string of rides!

From another forum regarding Woit....

His Corvette had a suspension failure on the freeway and hit a concrete K-rail. He also built a lifted 4wd Oldsmobile that he drove around the Hollywood Hills canyons.

And...

“Charlie was the wrench! He worked at the gas station on Crescent Hts and Sunset. He worked on some of Bud Ekins and Steve McQueens vehicles that regularly went down to Baja for the desert races. He was friends with both families, childhood pal of Joe Michiels.

Late 70's he was living in Canyon Country on Gazeley Street a couple of miles from me. On Sundays he would sell gold panning supplies at the Saugus Speedway swap meet. Interesting guy and probably far more to him than most knew. Avid miner, owned a placer mine called the Gentle Buzzard Mine.

He died on Vasquez Canyon Road near the 14 and was interred at Forest Lawn.

I only saw the Corvette a few times of times on Mulholland. I saw the lifted Oldsmobile around the valley quite a bit going up down Sepulveda and the 405 when it was actually still a freeway.”

Ha. I grew up in Laurel Cyn, by that Chevron station.

Cool! I was still editing all of the iPhone typing errors up top, and just spotted this. It is nice to get the guys story right. Thus another appreciated contribution. So the garage was one of the gas stations.

I remember back in that era, Gas Stations had real certified Mechanics, and did real car work. They also used to park their hot cars on the lots.

I have seen the other Canyon twice, and Vasquez in one other source. So you saw his Corvette. It would be cool to get more info on that car. On a page or so back, one of the real Mulholland racers posted up the black and white, but didn't say if it was Charlie's car or someone unknown.

If I really dig into my stuff, I could probably find something on just about any Corvette doing any kind of competition events. I don't remember Charlie's name coming up in anything outside of Mulholland, that I have ever read, but then I find all kinds of stuff that I have read years ago, that I don't remember.

PM'd you.

I have never until yesterday really searched for Charlie Woit on the internet. Wow what a mix of stories. He obviously got attention. I think a picture of him is coming clear. As if I crashed and died, I would want either a glorious reputation created or at a minimum, the truth.

As some think he liked the beer and others adamantly claim he swore off the vice of drink, I think the truth is in the middle probably. Maybe in his younger days when he was running the truck, maybe he mixed the two some. I bet something happened that changed that habit. And then he seemed to be described as not touching it. PS-- if I had only a V6 in a truck to drive, I would drink too!

For the Hot Rod era, there was a trend with the homebuilts like Ole Yeller, and creations from the AK Miller garage, that were set up respectfully for road racing. Thus I could see the Ford Coupe in my imagination, kind of a psuedo moonshiner type ride, crossed with Stock Car racing. Heavy springs, retread sticky tires, stripped of everything, coilover spring old school shocks, some heavy heavy sway bars, a figther plane harness, and lightweight bucket seat, and homebuilt headers made by Charlie.

It seemed like he had a group of neighbors and friends that got into it, and the interest in some of the foreign jobs. Many of those little cars like the Simca, even the Hillman story, and a mean Sunbeam Tiger seemed to have been cars that belonged to others, but got pegged to Charlie.

The car could have been either a 1965 or 1966 as both were big blocks (396/427), and most people couldn't tell them apart, or these engines. Both years had Nassau Blue paint available. Nassau Blue is a good and popular medium blue, replaced by the slightly shinier Marina Blue of the 1967 year.

His exploits in the truck, sounded daring! I can't see such a vehicle being fast, but he could drive it quick. The Ford, I would be interested in knowing what engine, as a flat head could be made to run, but would never be able to touch a Cobra. Thus maybe it had a small block Chevrolet fitted or even a Cad motor. I will have to look up the race potential of those early Fords. Maybe he had a Thunderbird engine or something.

I like his legend, as he seemed to make good with whatever he had. I don't buy that he was sweeping the course, as only Slalom/Autocross guy type are stupid enough to feel that was needed. I could tell you on Turnbull precisely where we swept. We even used to take like military type glow sticks (snap them) and set them on the apexes.

We did all kinds of stupid stuff to our road, so I can see guys on Mulholland being just as creative. We added a one to all of the Speed limit signs (25 mph, became 125 mph). We even when having out of townees, had stolen some stop signs from down in the City, and stuck them up there on the course, painted some thick white wide limit lines, and a phony crosswalk, so some dumbass would lift or slow seeing one, and might even think he has to stop, totaling ruining a top time run. Naturally all of us removed the license plate bulbs too! While race discussion was going on, our girlfriends would spray a whiff of perfume into the hot shot visitor's car pre-run as a distraction. Stuff like that.

In one Mulholland tale, they talked about like Nortons, Triumphs, and BSA's etc. as the cafe bikes of popularity. The Japanese bike crazy was much later. I didn't see on the Charlie posts, what bike he might have had, and when. That would be cool.

I could see Charlie coming down the road, and locks onto two guys running nose to tail saying, wow are we fast and then there comes the Corvette suddenly up into their rearview mirrors and he hits the high beams or flashes the lights, which isn't a cool thing to do, but older guys like my Father would do that. If I did that with the Marchal LeMans H4s, I would cause a crash, blinding them. That would sure become an instant distraction. Any guy making mistakes, having early apex anxiety is what I call it, I could take them on the inside under acceleration. Most novice guys actually do this crazy preparation for the upcoming turn, and just tend to start the turn way earlier, after the approach set up. The fastest cars hung to the outside, and then clip down on an apex late, and can modulate the gas pedal, and apply as you have road to spare, but it all depended if your next section was onto a straight or into another turn. Most of the time I would late apex on the inside, and drift right in front of their nose, pass complete. Hopefully you weren't out of position for the next turn, but hey, no blocking rule in Canyon racing!!!

Talking to the potentially fastest marques up there!

I have slammed like the RGruppe movement a little, but highly respect the enthusiasm and the taste level. The cars have personal style and character. So I am trying to think about how fast a Porsche could have been, back in the day. Most of the modern guys get a 2.7 or 3.0, or 3.2, 3.6 and drop essentially a big block with bigger 46mm valves into early cars or long nose conversions. Maybe the Cams got changed to an RSR or 906 grind, and then you have induction and exhaust.

I have every Porsche parts catalog known to mankind, and in like the Vasek Polak, you have pictures of cool things to buy, but the engine section was limited in component sections for upgrading the engine build. The rest of the Catalog is very much like Andial, where the special rockers, or rods, or pistons didn't really have a description that allowed the casual guy to know the part was hot. You had a Porsche sequence number and had to be in the know, to know that was the hot part. Guys weren't porting heads really, but the actual trick for more flow, was to buy the low horsepower, less stressed cylinder heads, as they had more meat to grind out of the floors of the ports. Otto’s did our twin plug conversion on our 67 911S! Don't know too many guys outside of IMSA to run 49mm valves and the matching pistons. You pretty much just port match the intakes. The twin plug heads were needed, because of the big piston dome. Most guys couldn't tune twin plug systems, especially at 8K type speed.
Suspensions in the 1970s, was growing tire size, and increasing torsion bars or sway bar size. Then you got a better married shock/spring unit, to better track the road. Maybe if you were a real racer, you had solid bushings of some type.

The beauty of the Japanese car engines like the 510/240 Zs was the crossflow design like the old Offy engines. Intake in one side, and exhaust out the other. Very efficient. The little Mini Cooper engines have turbulence and flow complications due to intake and exhaust in the same side. Thus the flow is flow thru. You had excess duration overlap, not an ideal set up, for optimum horsepower. Even VW or Porsche pancake engines flow across the heads. PS- I have seen a few dummies firing off the wrong side of the twin plugs on a number of Porsches.

What's a PM, on like the Corvette sites, I had to stop responding, have it locked up to purposely not get messages from guys that want me to research. You couldn't pay me enough, and I don't have the time. If someone is looking for something, if I spot in my hobby travels enjoying my collection of literature, I might post up info.

If you did all of this stuff, then why didn't you keep your old pictures and programs. I have outlayed many many many thousands of dollars just buying car related literature, magazines, programs, pictures. Not many would bid on like a Program for a $100, just because it has a particular Corvette picture, like me. Because a guy has or had a car, many in the Corvette World think that I should sell them a piece of literature for $20, just because they owed the car, when I paid a $100. I work a real job, and am not a researcher for hire. I had some of the Registries getting all butt hurt, because I am not going to stop my life, to research Cobra car histories, or share FIA vin numbers.

I will look at the PM. See what's up. March racing cars, never studied up on chassis production numbers. I like the B19 and B23 cars. I finally found a 1/24 scale B23 model car. I have the 1/24 Can am car 707, etc.

I love old Gas Station photos, of the places we tanked up at. Do you have any pictures of that old station. Funny how where we got our gas was so casual, and now it would have been cool to have more than just a foggy memory. My Dad early on was a Texaco guy, and then switched to Union 76 as I think they had one point higher on their claimed octane maybe. Who knows!

There are many places, I wish I would have just clicked at least one picture of. NO one like has a picture of the Bob's Big Boy on Whittier or the other hang out places. No one thought to shoot pictures of our favorite thing, cruising the cars and the places associated with that. I now try to find pictures of the old speed shops, their advertising, the old dealerships, the Performance car lots, etc. etc.. Anything that was part of the scene.

Thanks for the info TC. I'm getting a clearer picture of who Charlie might have been and from the sounds of it he was a hell of a guy with a lot of talent and know how. A talented mechanic and fabricator can accomplish just about anything. I've been fortunate and have been around and have known people like this.

If the Vette was indeed purchased used, is it possible that the previous owner was the one to have the Guldstrand parts put on the car? I can see this as a possibility especially if it was previously owned by a stunt driver.

You mentioned that Charlie was a family friend of the McQueens. I wonder if Chad McQueen has photos or stories about Charlie.

I don't know anything about Big Willie, but from the sounds of it he made a big impact. One thing is for certain, LA has a very rich automotive history and LA invented/shaped car culture. I will beat this horse to death, films need to be made about these guys.