Low class wellfare scum

[john70t]

"US state Michigan has agreed to give Ford Motor $300m (£155m) to keep open six of its factories in the state."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6249117.stm

"Ford Motor Co.'s new chief executive will get an annual base salary of $2 million and an immediate payout of $18.5 million for taking the job, the company said Friday in a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission."
http://www.townhall.com/News/NewsArticle.aspx?ContentGuid=18c83850-923c-4322-9b80-02aa6a0ecd11

[Porsche-O-Phile]

"Oh, but that's different".

C'mon. You know you want to say it. C'mon out.

[Flatbutt1]

Jeez so they get the money, half of it in the form of tax avoidance, and they don't need to promise to keep the workforce in place.

[john70t]

"Ford also granted Mulally 4 million stock options and 600,000 restricted stock units." (I forgot this one)

[lendaddy]

Why do you think the State would do this?


Answer: Because the state needs Ford a lot more than Ford needs the state. This is not welfare, this is a bribe.

[SlowToady]

::insert comment about evil gubmint not interfering with free market here::

[john70t]

The state of Michigan needs nothing.
If the company defaults its state taxes or loans and folds, then the factories can be leased out to other companies which are run competantly enough to make a profit on the merits of it's own labor.

My taxes and yours, in entirety, are going to a single private individual(s) who haven't even begun representing a failed company.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by john70t
The state of Michigan needs nothing.
If the company defaults its state taxes or loans and folds, then the factories can be leased out to other companies which are run competantly enough to make a profit on the merits of it's own labor.

My taxes and yours, in entirety, are going to a single private individual(s) who haven't even begun representing a failed company.

I'm afraid you are completely wrong, no one will lease the buildings, the state will lose further revenue, feeder businesses will dry up and also leave, etc....

Have you ever been to Michigan? All the big factories are EMPTY.

They are not kidding around, they want to leave Michigan for greener pastures. Not overseas man, other states that understand they need corporations to employ their people.

[lendaddy]

I will add that I hate the idea of the State actually giving funds to a business, but tax abatements are a great idea. So I have no problem with half of the plan.

[Tim Hancock]

Man that is a tough one. A huge portion of the population of Michigan works for the big three and if they go away, unemployment figures would be astronomical. On the other hand, I have always felt that many of those union workers are way overpaid. As awful as it sounds, part of me wants to say it serves them right. The company I work for designs and builds custom automated machinery, a small portion of which ends up in automotive plants.

Every time I visit a plant, I leave disgusted knowing how much money the average union employee is making for doing what are often such simple tasks. Many of these same employees would be lucky to make 1/3 of their current wages in a normal non-union job.

Too bad the unions have made it nearly impossible for the big three to build a quality car for a competitive price without losing money in todays market.

No easy answer here.

[john70t]

Great! I'll start a company, get millions in state funding, and then decide what my salary will be....whether I produce a viable product is irrelevant.
If it's 9-figure government handouts, I'm in!

Saying there are no automotive manufacturers that wouldn't love to move into a centrally located cushy setup is bunk.
Toyota, for one, could save a bunch in building costs when they finally move into the area.
Toyota makes a good product, has plenty of reserves, and unlike Ford, they won't default on workers pensions which necessitates federal taxes for bailout procedures.

The fact that Ford is an "all American" company with patriotic ties is also very wrong. Half the parts in a any car these days come from all corners of the globe. If it was economically feasable, they would be gone in a flash.

Ford is now paying the price for decades of making (mostly) a *****ty product, using semi-fraudulant financing, having an inbred corporate atmosphere, and treating their American customers like dirt.
No, actually, Michigan residents are paying the price.

[Moneyguy1]

John:

Respectfully:

Go to Cities like Buffalo, Rochester, Schenectady to name a few and see just how quickly manufacturing facilities that have been abandoned are snapped up........

Not.......

[turbo6bar]

Exactly. Toyota wants to build a new plant. Their shortlist begins and ends with cities in the Southeastern US.

The Big Three have definitely made some big mistakes, but to claim Michigan residents have paid out more than they received is a bit whacked. I am sure there are many states that would love to have the manufacturing boost of any of the Big 3 minus the union stranglehold.

[Nathans_Dad]

Hrm...Labor unions force wage increases and complex retirement/health plans which then increase prices for the company which makes it harder for them to compete with other companies who do not carry such a burden (i.e. foreign auto makers).

Company then has trouble staying afloat and the state grants them assistance in order to avoid them closing plants and thousands losing their jobs.

And....this is the company's fault?

To be sure, the big 3 have made mistakes, but have you actually looked at how much of the price of a Ford automobile goes towards just healthcare benefits for Ford employees? It's ridiculous.

[Jim Richards]

Rick, aren't you part of the healthcare equation?

[Nathans_Dad]

Yep...and I ain't making all that money, trust me.

[Moneyguy1]

As this subject of benefits has arisen, I wonder whether anyone has taken into consideration that, if the unions, rightly or wrongly, did not have medical coverage for its members, those costs would be borne by the general public in increased taxes at some level.

As my favorite Business School prof once told us:

"In this all too imperfect world, there ain't no free beer."

On general question....When will the govrnment, industry and the public investigate the reasons why medical costs rise multiples faster than overall inflation and where this money is going....Just curious. If anyone can point me toward a veifiable source, I would indeed be grateful.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by john70t
Great! I'll start a company, get millions in state funding, and then decide what my salary will be....whether I produce a viable product is irrelevant.
If it's 9-figure government handouts, I'm in!

You completely miss the point. The state makes HUGE, HUGE, HUGE effin bucks off the direct and indirect tax revenue of Ford. This is not charity nor welfare, it is an investment in future returns.

So, go ahead and start a multi billion dollar company and generate billions in taxes for your state.....then you can ask for some "handouts" of a few million when you're about to relocate.

You just keep missing the point that Ford is a massive asset to the state, not a liability.

Also, When Ford leaves the states buget will remain the ssame or grow....yet the state won't be getting Fords tax money.....what do you think happens next?

[Moneyguy1]

len..

Spot on......

The multiplier effect in action....

[Jim Richards]

Originally posted by Nathans_Dad
Yep...and I ain't making all that money, trust me.

Go civie and you will.