Looks like you guys in Cali might be in for more blackouts

[David]

Cali is making it a law that utilities can't enter long term contract for electricity from coal plants out of state. My guess is this will be fiasco just like the failed deregulation law.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070125/ap_on_re_us/dirty_power

[legion]

And Illinois will try to emulate that bad policy in short order.

[red-beard]

So, does this mean they will build some new power plants in California that do not use coal and do not make CO2?

[legion]

Originally posted by red-beard
So, does this mean they will build some new power plants in California that do not use coal and do not make CO2?

Considering the anti-CO2 wackos are as adamantly anti-nuclear, they're going to have to buy a lot of gererators.

[David]

The CO2 thing is a freakin joke. Human CO2 generation is about 1/30th of what is produced natually. A slight change in humidity has a greater affect on greenhouse gases than anything we can do. The Kyoto folks knew we couldn't do anything about humidity so they picked the next thing on the list, CO2. Nevermind the fact that it's a very distant next on the list.

I agree that we need to decommission the old coal and gas plants to cut down on SO2, NOx, soot, etc., but let's be smart about it.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

"Long-term" contracts. Who cares. Short and intermediate-term contracts are still fine, right?

We're probably better off that way. You go giving Generator "X" a long-term deal and next thing you know they're looking to schiester you like Enron 'cause they figure they've got a lock anyway, right?

[David]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
"Long-term" contracts. Who cares. Short and intermediate-term contracts are still fine, right?

We're probably better off that way. You go giving Generator "X" a long-term deal and next thing you know they're looking to schiester you like Enron 'cause they figure they've got a lock anyway, right?

That was one of the big flaws with the deregulation law from several years ago. They would not let retail suppliers enter into long term contracts so they had to buy on the spot market. Then electricity costs can fluctuate wildly.

Don't worry though, Cali will pass a law to limit the price of electricity and we all know what happens when you mess with laws of supply and demand. In this case blackouts.

[nostatic]

that's ok...i got plenty of ammo

[RoninLB]

Arnold says he can power Calif on hot air.

[red-beard]

Good luck y'all, on that stuff. We'll leave a light on for ya.

[Joe Bob]

I see they cut the solar power subsidy for homeowners again....that should help.

[tabs]

Well look at it this way, the states of MI, NY and CA are experiencing White Flight and Capital Flight. They are the centers of Social experimentation and the first to become like 3rd world nations.

I say let Hillary be the Queen of Queens, Pelosi the Queen of the Castro District and Murtha running for his life in Detroit.

[slakjaw]

Your all so damn DOOM & GLOOM

[nota]

on volcano gas amounts aka produced natually

''''A highlight of the outgassing theory of Khilyuk and Chilingar (2006) is their comparison of the total anthropogenic carbon dioxide emission of 1.003 × 1018 g with the hypothesized total mass of CO2 degassed from the mantle throughout geologic history of 4.63 × 1023 g. This is used to declare that the total anthropogenic CO2 emission “constitutes less than 0.00022% of the total CO2 amount naturally degassed from the mantle during geologic history” and conclude that “the anthropogenic carbon dioxide emission is negligible (indistinguishable) in any energy-matter transformation processes changing the Earth’s climate”. It seems that the authors forgot to take the time factor into account. The anthropogenic emission happened during 200 years, whereas the natural degassing during geologic history spanned 4.5 billion years. Thus, the above numbers yield a yearly anthropogenic flux that is about 50 times larger than the mantle degassing flux, which hardly is negligible. It appears that the authors assume that the 4.63 × 1023 g of CO2 degassed from the mantle all remained in the atmosphere. Yet, the present day atmosphere contains less than 3 × 1018 g of CO2, and compared to this number the total anthropogenic CO2 emission of 1 × 1018 g certainly is significant.''''

short version
the claim that volcanos put out more CO2 then man has
is true over 4.5 billion years
but false over the last 200 years
man has added 1/3 of the CO2 currently in the air
and about 50 times more then resent volcanos put into the air
over the last 200 years

from
Environmental Geology
International Journal of Geosciences
. Springer-Verlag 2006
10.1007/s00254-006-0519-3

and yes thats peer reviewed science

[ckissick]

Originally posted by nota
on volcano gas amounts aka produced natually

''''A highlight of the outgassing theory of Khilyuk and Chilingar (2006) is their comparison of the total anthropogenic carbon dioxide emission of 1.003 × 1018 g with the hypothesized total mass of CO2 degassed from the mantle throughout geologic history of 4.63 × 1023 g. This is used to declare that the total anthropogenic CO2 emission “constitutes less than 0.00022% of the total CO2 amount naturally degassed from the mantle during geologic history” and conclude that “the anthropogenic carbon dioxide emission is negligible (indistinguishable) in any energy-matter transformation processes changing the Earth’s climate”. It seems that the authors forgot to take the time factor into account. The anthropogenic emission happened during 200 years, whereas the natural degassing during geologic history spanned 4.5 billion years. Thus, the above numbers yield a yearly anthropogenic flux that is about 50 times larger than the mantle degassing flux, which hardly is negligible. It appears that the authors assume that the 4.63 × 1023 g of CO2 degassed from the mantle all remained in the atmosphere. Yet, the present day atmosphere contains less than 3 × 1018 g of CO2, and compared to this number the total anthropogenic CO2 emission of 1 × 1018 g certainly is significant.''''

short version
the claim that volcanos put out more CO2 then man has
is true over 4.5 billion years
but false over the last 200 years
man has added 1/3 of the CO2 currently in the air
and about 50 times more then resent volcanos put into the air
over the last 200 years

from
Environmental Geology
International Journal of Geosciences
. Springer-Verlag 2006
10.1007/s00254-006-0519-3

and yes thats peer reviewed science

Yes, that was a lame argument. However, as 125shifter pointed out, human CO2 emmissions are not critical, as humiidty overshadows the effects of CO2. So the argument you present is somewhat moot. That's the whole point.

[scottmandue]

I live within Los Angeles city limits, they make their own electricity thus no blackout for me.

neener neener

[techweenie]

The blackouts happened when California had a 55 megawatt capacity and 49 megawatt demand. It happened because the plant operators colluded to take about 20% of power generating capacity offline simultaneously.

I doubt we'll see that again, although I've heard that Homeland Security has required deactivating wind generation 'farms' on some flimsy security pretext. We do need another plant or two...

EDIT: not necessarily shutting down, but stopping creation of 15 wind turbine 'farms...'

http://www.physorg.com/news68373280.html

DHS's close ties to the oil industry couldn't have anything to do with that, of course.

[dd74]

If you're really worried, get one of these...

[Moneyguy1]

1. Contact the folks at Stargate

2. Buy some alien "zero point modules"

That will solve the problem.

[nota]

Originally posted by ckissick
Yes, that was a lame argument. However, as 125shifter pointed out, human CO2 emmissions are not critical, as humiidty overshadows the effects of CO2. So the argument you present is somewhat moot. That's the whole point.

humiidty or water vapor falls out of the air
thats called rain
and doesnot build up ever higher

CO2 takes about 500 years to cycle out of the air
and does build up ever higher
sorry water , methane, and other BS is not the problem

CO2 is the problem