$34/hr without bennies

[Moses]

Originally posted by artplumber
didn't do the math, is that assuming a 40hr wk?

And obviously, Pleasanton is way higher than the rest of the state. What are living expenses there like ie median home price etc...

Assuming 40 hour work week. Living expenses are extremely high in the immediate area, but home prices are much lower if you can live with a 30-45 minute commute.

Notice the state AVERAGE is $59,000.

[widebody911]

So, if it's such a phat gig, why aren't more people beating down the doors to get into the profession?

[Moses]

Originally posted by widebody911
So, if it's such a phat gig, why aren't more people beating down the doors to get into the profession?

Maybe they've heard about my kids.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by Moses
Maybe they've heard about my kids.

I have...why do you think I'm trying to move to China

[stevepaa]

Neighboring Danville is $55k at ten years and Pleasanton is $73.

man, I was teaching in the wrong district. I need to tell my daughter about this.


of course, she could not afford a starter home at $700K in Pleasanton, but she could commute.

[RoninLB]

WSJ
Free to Choose in Utah
February 2, 2007; Page A18


Another brick could soon fall from the Berlin Wall that surrounds America's failing public schools, as Utah's legislature considers what would be the first universally available statewide voucher program in America.

The voucher bill passed out of committee earlier this week and is backed by Governor Jon Huntsman. It would offer students who attend private K-12 schools from $500 to $3,000 in tuition reimbursement based on family income. While Utah is known for its Mormon population, the biggest winners under the plan would be the state's growing Hispanic population, who haven't done well in general in Utah public schools.

As usual, local school boards and the state teachers union (the Utah Education Association) are fighting the idea, claiming that it will "drain" money from public schools. This hardly seems likely because the $9 million cost of the program is about 0.5% of total school spending. And the voucher maximum of $3,000 is less than half the state per child public-school spending average of $6,325. The voucher bill also allows Utah public schools to keep the difference between the voucher amount paid out to students who leave and the $6,325 per pupil average.

Vouchers are working in a handful of cities, such as Cleveland, Milwaukee, and Washington, D.C. Former Florida Governor Jeb Bush also promoted a statewide plan, until a liberal state court invented constitutional objections. The evidence on student performance has mostly been favorable in these schools, and research by Harvard economist Carolyn Hoxby has found that the presence of vouchers has caused the public schools to improve their performance as well.

So let's hope Utah lawmakers stare down the opposition and give this statewide experiment a try. "For the unions, this vote is about protecting their monopoly," House Speaker Greg Curtis says. "They don't like vouchers for the same reason blacksmiths didn't welcome the Model T."


ps: above is WSJ writing

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by Jim Cesiro
The WSJ probably took an average for the country I have no doubt that in some areas there are better pay scales and others have worse. Its like that in all businesses.

the author of opening post is listed in last paragraph.




"Mr. Greene holds the endowed chair of education reform at the University of Arkansas and is a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, where Mr. Winters is a senior research associate. Their report, "How Much Are Public School Teachers Paid?," was released this week."

[stevepaa]

So where will the money come from?

[Burnin' oil]

Originally posted by nostatic

And if you think education is expensive, try stupidity.

I have, and I do, and it is.

[pwd72s]

Originally posted by stevepaa
So where will the money come from?

Easy...I don't know about your state, but here, the state makes payments to the government schools based on enrollment numbers. If the voucher is (out of air figure) 1/2 the amount that was paid to the government school, the government school gets the other 1/2...for NOT teaching that student. (edit) If the government schools want those $ back, they can try doing a better job at what they do. It's called competition and choice....
The teacher's union monopoly is beginning to fall apart. This taxpayer loves it. I'll probably never live long enough to see a bill like Utah's make it in Oregon though. Once this is in place, look for Utah's school test scores to begin outstripping the states where the union still runs the show. People will begin to catch on.
It'll take time, but it's the best shot this country has to be able to compete globally on the education front.

[stevepaa]

a point of reference

local school pays starting teachers $45.5K per year for the first five years, that is correct, no increase for the first five years

local kids just got jobs: girl with a BA from Chico got a job for $50k, boy with BS from Cal Poly just started at $54K



pwd72 you seem to think the union casues poor test scores, how is that?

[Bryan Beaumont]

Just for comparison. I looked at the school calendar for my kids school (public in So. Cal). I totaled the number of vacation days off, and came up with 106 days!! 81 days for summer, 3 for Thanksgiving, 12 for Christmas, 5 for Easter, etc. For the record, 106 days off calculates out to 3.53 months off per year. Just for comparison

[stevepaa]

yeah, 3 months off without pay

nice if your single and renting

not nice, if a family man with no job

[Bryan Beaumont]

That works out to be exactly 3.53 months off WITH pay. Most teachers in this area opt to be paid 26 times per year, or every 2 weeks. The school district pays salaries here, not by the hour. Riverside County, So Cal. The teachers here are great, and deserve this kind of first class treatment.

[Evans, Marv]

I have to say a lot of what Berretafan and some of the others who have commented here have substance. I worked for a large high school district for 30+ years and saw the teaching side and the management side, though as a manager of programs rather than school administration. I could never stomach the politics and hypocrisy involved with that. I won't even start on the delightful intricacies of where the money goes, priorities relating to student behavior, and toleration of bad teachers, custodians, counselors, administrators, etc., etc. It's all a convoluted mess.
I will say there are good teachers, great teachers, teachers there for the paycheck, and really bad teachers. My wife teaches and is there at 7:30 and leaves around 5:30. She recently started teaching - this is her third year, and she received the teacher of the year for her school again this year. This is her second year in a row. She works until 10 or 11 at night, gets 3 weeks off at a time (year around school schedule), and spends most of the 3 weeks preparing for the upcoming term. Her students leave her class above grade level and are bored with the subject matter for the first half of the next school year.
It would be great if there was some way of rewarding those who work hard and produce positive results and penalize those who don't. I see that as the only way to instill initiative, and attract competent teachers and discourage the crappy ones. It will never happen though.

[Moses]

Originally posted by Evans, Marv
It would be great if there was some way of rewarding those who work hard and produce positive results and penalize those who don't. I see that as the only way to instill initiative, and attract competent teachers and discourage the crappy ones. It will never happen though.

In order to survive, the system MUST find a way to reward excellence in teaching. Your wife has taken a professional approach to her job and should be compenated accordingly.

If merit pay were awarded and tenure abandoned, voters would pass bond measures willingly and support our public schools enthusiastically.

[ZOO]

I believe that the excellent teachers are underpaid everywhere, and the poor teachers overpaid everywhere.

[pwd72s]

Originally posted by Moses
In order to survive, the system MUST find a way to reward excellence in teaching. Your wife has taken a professional approach to her job and should be compensated accordingly.

If merit pay were awarded and tenure abandoned, voters would pass bond measures willingly and support our public schools enthusiastically.

+1 The only way to reward excellence involves getting rid of the NEA, aptly dubbed "The National Extortion Association" by Ron...
They have the gall to call themselves "professionals". Moses, you're a professional...do you have both collective bargaining and tenure?

[berettafan]

So who will be teaching the poor kids? The child from the broken home who gets no parental support or encouragement? What about the child with learning disabilities? I doubt many teachers would be willing to go to an inner city or poor rural school if they're just going to get the boot when they fail to single handedly defeat drugs, racism and pre-teen pregnancy in one semester.

Merit pay? Sounds like a wonderful incentive for less than honest teachers and administrators to assist students in cheating on standardized tests. Oh, wait, that already happens thanks to 'no child left behind' aka 'no parent held responsible'.

Certainly you guys think of yourselves as intelligent folks. Aren't you a product of the very system you're bashing? "it's different now" you say? Yup, it sure is. Teachers have their hands tied behind their backs in the war on drugs, teen pregnancy and parental ignorance and standardized testing is seen as the great equalizer.

[berettafan]

Originally posted by pwd72s
+1 The only way to reward excellence involves getting rid of the NEA, aptly dubbed "The National Extortion Association" by Ron...
They have the gall to call themselves "professionals". Moses, you're a professional...do you have both collective bargaining and tenure?

You guys need to realize that 'excellence' is often just another way of saying 'teaches well adjusted white kids from homes with strong families'.

My wife was recently telling me about the 'teacher of the year' in her county. Inside info was that this girl was definitely a cut above (unlike winners in some prior years where several teachers actually refused the award as it was simply an invitation to lose more teaching time) and was implementing some great ideas. My wife, along with many others, wanted to adapt some of these ideas for their own schools (different socio-economic backgrounds) but were told BY ADMIN that there was NO TIME for this as the latest set of gov't nonsense procedures had been handed down and everybody needs to be working on CYA and test-prepping if they are to be seen as worth in the eyes of unqualified politicians far removed from the day to day grind of teaching.

Vouchers DON'T fix this. WTF would i pay taxes for public schools while at the same time support a voucher system whose main premise is the supposed failure of public schools?! It's assinine! This does not address the core problems.

Paul and Moses if you guys want to see a difference in what our schools are turning out you need to start knocking on the doors of students and asking their parents to get involved! After that you can volunteer to tutor the same kids when the parents fail to get involved or the STATE fails to provide adequate funding to give them personal attention that they may need.