Professional Misconduct by Realtor? (Part 1 of 2)

[john70t]

The wierd thing about the realtors obligations are the extremes:
-A few drive all over the state and spend countless hours searching all the details to fit the buyers specifications...
-A few will only show up to sign the closing paperwork once the buyer has everything else, and they can't be bothered with annoying question...
-Most are somewhere inbetween those, though.

Remember who will sign their check, and many others for a long time.

[berettafan]

Originally posted by SLO-BOB
Make an offer to the listing realtor as they will be more motivated to do the high pressure salesman bit on the seller because they stand to get the full commision rather than splitting it with another broker. The downside is you don't have someone out there looking for you, but the upside is no annoying calls at the office.

A1 advice there! I have used this before and it works! You are taking advantage of the very sliminess that you despise! One can expect the selling agent to do everything they can to point out any positives in your offer this way.

[GDSOB]

In the spirit of full disclosure, I'm a Ohio licensed broker...

Your agent sucks, you don't like him, so don't do business with him.

The seller is under no obligation to accept your offer even if it's cash at asking price. There is no contractual agreement between the parties until an offer is accepted by both sides.

Your agent has a fiduciary responsibility to you, the client (at least in Ohio). That said, he only gets paid when a deal is closed, so there is no motivation for your agent to bait & switch.

I would be wary about dealing directly with the listing agent. His client is the seller, not you- anything you tell him can and will be used against you in negotiations.

Find a GOOD experienced buyers agent who you can relate to. Someone close to your age, who did a lot of transactions last year. They will find you a deal in this market. Once you find someone good, use them exclusively in the search so they know your likes/dislikes. Most likely they will rebate a portion of their commission back to you for your loyalty.

Best of luck to you.

[SLO-BOB]

Originally posted by GDSOB
I would be wary about dealing directly with the listing agent. His client is the seller, not you- anything you tell him can and will be used against you in negotiations.

All agents "work" for the seller. Even ones you hire on when looking for a house. They tell you that right out of the box. Unless of course you hire a "buyers" agent. Most listing agents (I know) bristle at the thought of buyers agents and see them as outsiders looking to weasel in.

That said (again, I'll assume all contributers here are the exception) agents really work for themselves. They will screw whoever it takes to get the deal done and the money in their pocket.

Honestly, who is more motivated to close a deal- a guy who has to split a commission on a home sold at asking (or above) or a guy who gets the full commission on a home sold at a reduced price? Do the math. The latter comes out ahead.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

How does a buyer's agent get paid? In other words, if I go to new realtor "Bob" and say, "who exactly do you work for?" and he says "the seller, as the seller's agent" and I say, "that's unacceptable, would you be willing to sign a 'buyer's agent agreement' with me so I know you're working for ME and have MY best interests at heart here?", what kind of response would I/should I expect?

[rammstein]

If I understand your question, you are implying that 'Bob' is the listing agent for the seller, then at that moment he is representing the seller. In some states he can also represent you, being a 'dual-agent'. Whatever to all of that, if you are really wanting a realtor to be on your side, get a buyer's agent separate from the seller.

As a side note, a lot of realtors are slimey, because its really damn easy to do it. But the world is small, and eventually they get enough of a rep that you can avoid them. A good realtor can be very helpful- not essential - but helpful. Sound like you hated John for awhile- next time you don't like a realtor just walk away- there are lots of realtors happy to replace him. Find a good one, and happy hunting- its definitely a bargain time. I myself am waiting around hoping for a bit more of a discount, hopefully I won't wait too long. Thinking 6 months....

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I'm with you completely. I've done some searching on "sellers agent versus buyers agent" and gotten some better understanding of the subject now. The only thing I'm a bit unclear on is how a "buyer's agent" gets paid - if they are required to split the commission with the listing agent or whether I should expect to pony up for their service out-of-pocket.

I've got an appointment to meet with (yet another) guy tomorrow morning and look at a couple of properties close to where I happen to live now. We'll see how it goes. I'm under no obligation to use any of them (I've literally got four realtors lined up right now chomping at the bit to assist me, so I figure at least one of them will be willing to sign on as a 'buyers agent' rather than a dual-agency kind of deal).

It's REALLY becoming a buyer's market out there. I wouldn't have even gotten so much as a second glance from these people a year ago. Now they're tripping over each other to get me on the phone. Pretty wild.

[rammstein]

I can clear that up for you-

The listing agent gets an agreement from the seller where the seller pays him X% upon sale of the property. Lets say its 6%. Now, that listing agent generally puts the listing up onto the MLS with cooperation for buyers' agents at 3%. They split the commission with the buyers agent. So, in essence, the seller pays both agents.

As a buyer, you don't pay the buyer agent squat.

CAVEAT- some people would say that by not having a buyer's agent and going directly to the listing agent, you can get a better deal because the selling agent can give up some of his fee to make the deal happen, and because he will be 'double-ending' it, he will fight the seller hard for your offer. In practice, this MIGHT work but it is by no means a given. A GOOD buyer's agent should earn their keep with their negotiating skills, ability to find deals, etc.

[john70t]

The commision goes to the realtors, usually about 6% and is usually paid by the seller.
BTW, A Real Estate Agent is not a Realtor(tm) until they've joined the national association, although this is a commonly used terminology.

This is not set in stone, and can be negotiatable especially in todays buyers market regardless of the "this is common practice" attitude. The result, however, will be a very unmotivated/unresponsive pair of agents and you may be last on their priority list depending on how hungry they are.
The laws surounding this are pretty grey in many areas, and breach of contract/misrepresentation are common complaints.

There are storys of agents refusing to deal with FSBO properties as well, a kind of boycott system since it cuts out "the gang". I personally think 6% is quite fair in the $50K house days, but outrageous in the million dollar Cali feeding frenzy.

-If you use the sellers listing agent as your own, then they are a dual agent, primarly represent the seller, and get the full commision.
-If you use an agent without a buyers agreement, then they still may exchange your information with the seller, but split the commision 50/50 with the seller's listing agent.
-If you use an agent with a buyers agreement, they split the commision, but your agent cannot legally disclose your financial situation or motiviation. This is important: never discuss how well you like the property or how desperate you are to move with anyone.

I'm not a Realtor, don't play one on t.v., and didn't stay at a hotel.
I did take a community college night course on the subject, and so should anyone wanting to sign their signature for hundreds of thousands of dollars in financial obligation.
Before anything, makes charts of all expenses/payment schedules/rents, read the loan offers carefully(ie: on a $100k 30year fixed at 8% you'll pay ~$62K extra in interest), and plan in a rental "out" if perhaps your job situation changes.

[john70t]

POP, if you're moving to a new area, I'd seriously rent for half a year while you get aclimated. The housing market isn't going anywhere fast anytime soon, and may even temporarily drop like a brick for your convenience.

Look carefully at any property and never "fall in love" with it.
-Drive around the areas at different time and check out the traffic situation, the nearby knucklehead situation, and nearby draws.
-Load test the houses' electrics and the plumbing to check for drops etc.
-Look out for asbestos shingles, lead plumbing, low areas(foundation cracks/flooding/mildew)
-Definitly hire a registered and certified home inspector(or 2) and an attorney for closing. That should help uncover those dirty little secrets the seller was trying to hide (ie:black mold-no Cert of Occ/unpaid taxes and mechanics lien/etc...).
-Shop for loans, fixed is probably best
-Look at 5-10 properties first for practice
-Start low, and wait for counter offer if everything checks out.

[SLO-BOB]

Originally posted by rammstein
I can clear that up for you-

The listing agent gets an agreement from the seller where the seller pays him X% upon sale of the property. Lets say its 6%. Now, that listing agent generally puts the listing up onto the MLS with cooperation for buyers' agents at 3%. They split the commission with the buyers agent. So, in essence, the seller pays both agents.

As a buyer, you don't pay the buyer agent squat.

CAVEAT- some people would say that by not having a buyer's agent and going directly to the listing agent, you can get a better deal because the selling agent can give up some of his fee to make the deal happen, and because he will be 'double-ending' it, he will fight the seller hard for your offer. In practice, this MIGHT work but it is by no means a given. A GOOD buyer's agent should earn their keep with their negotiating skills, ability to find deals, etc.

Rammstein has it right. I agree with all of the above.

Fwiw, I've used Buyers agents. No better than a regular agent in my experience. And again, the realtors seem not to like them so I felt as though I was being shut out on some deals just because I had a buyers agent. Not sure why this is exactly because I believe they split the same as regular agents.

[Loaded]

Find another realtor and move on.
Realtors are sales people deal with it!
If you cant deal with it then try and buy a home without one.
Talk to the guys broker and ask for another agent.
Attorneys in general wont risk the 1500 Dollars they make on a lousy realtor and being in cahoots with one Are you serious!
Learn about real estate first and read contracts.


THE most important thing you have is your mind attached to your mouth. JUST SAY NO. and WALK.

Buying a house is simple.

Stop complicating it with seller concessions and other BS. pay for dang closing costs and your dang taxes and HOA. and reduce the price.

Most of all WHY on Gods green earth would anybody buy the inflated crap California is selling these days.You will be left holding your @ick when the market collapses and your stuck with a $90K apartment conversion and paying your interest only 100% 2 year ARM....


Move to Dallas Texas let me sell you something.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

"Find another realtor and move on."
I did. Four of them. I'm sure at least one will work out okay.

"Realtors are sales people deal with it"
I can. I have no problem with someone trying to make a living by doing their job. I do have a problem with someone being a pushy, overbearing *********, being unable to listen to a client he supposedly represents, and generally annoying the crap out of me in a manner that would make the crustiest 10-gallon-hat and plaid suit-coat wearin' used car salesman blush. I'm not rewarding that kind of d1ckhead behavior with my hard-earned money. Period.

"If you cant deal with it try and buy a home without one."
I may end up doing that. We'll see. I have no problem with a FSBO and it's another avenue I'm exploring.

"Talk to the guys broker and ask for another agent."
No need. I've cut the cord and moved on. These guys are dime-a-dozen.

"Attorneys in general wont risk the 1500 Dollars they make on a lousy realtor and being in cahoots with one Are you serious!"
I'm not certain I understand your question here. My theory was that possibly the listing agent ("Ivan") and my realtor ("John") may have been working together without disclosure to play funny games with this property and rip me off. Whether or not this was the case is moot. I've ditched any interest in it and have moved on. There are many others. I'm not about to get hung up on one.

"Learn about real estate first and read contracts."
I read contracts every day. The point of this thread is to try and learn about real estate. I deal with construction - not real estate per se on a day-to-day basis. I also deal with commercial, not residential.

"THE most important thing you have is your mind attached to your mouth. JUST SAY NO. and WALK."
Did so. Now you're giving good advice, but it's also a bit late, seeing as I've already done so.

"Buying a house is simple."
In some ways yes, in other ways no. It's not nearly as simple as it was in years past, but it's not rocket science either. One simply has to understand the relationships and rules, which is exactly what I'm trying to glean from this.

"Stop complicating it with seller concessions and other BS. pay for dang closing costs and your dang taxes and HOA. and reduce the price."
That's standard out here. No, I won't pay costs. Nobody else in this market does and neither will I. I'll maybe go half, but that's it. It's a buyer's market now and NOBODY buying is eating costs. Eff that. It's a good negotiating point. As is the taxes and HOA fees. I'll ask for them and I can use them as leverage in future bartering. If I don't get them and get the seller to drop his price instead, fine. No skin off my ass. However, I think simply defaulting to convention is pretty foolish given the market conditions. We're on the same page when you get right down to it. Whether I offer $250,000 for the place with $20,000 of seller concessions or offer $230,000, it's the same thing. It makes it sound potentially more attractive to a buyer to offer the bigger number and then "nickel-dime" the rest, rather than offering the lower number and having him/her dismiss it outright as "lowball". It works every day in this market.

"Most of all WHY on Gods green earth would anybody buy the inflated crap California is selling these days.You will be left holding your @ick when the market collapses and your stuck with a $90K apartment conversion and paying your interest only 100% 2 year ARM...."
Because it's dropped about 10% and is a guarantee of making future money if you hold it long enough. That's fine by me, I ain't going anywhere. The idea is not to buy at the peak of the market with a I/O, 2-1 ARM. Who the heck said anything about that? I'm looking at buying in a dip in the market with an 80/20 30-year fixed, for whatever that's worth.

Maybe I'd consider Texas. . . Maybe. Lot of things I like about it. But honestly, I'm happy here and don't have plans on leaving anytime soon. But if I do, sure. I'll look ya' up.

[Loaded]

Come on Man move to Texas who needs Cali......Sorry if I sounded like an Ass in that post. Just drives me nuts hearing about some of the crap that goes on with jackass realtors.

I am a Broker and own my own companies. actually 3 we are 23rd in DFW in Sales.........It has taken me a long time and lots of work to get us here.

I have ZERO tolerance for shinanigans like this guy but I really do appreciate a good sales person.

Good Luck

[berettafan]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
[B"Buying a house is simple."
In some ways yes, in other ways no. It's not nearly as simple as it was in years past, but it's not rocket science either. One simply has to understand the relationships and rules, which is exactly what I'm trying to glean from this.
[/B]

No, it's simple. Period. Loaded is absolutely correct.

Realtors like making a big deal out of whos paying what and saving you $ on closing because they figure (rightly in most cases) that you will be impressed by this and recommend them to your friends. In the end all that matters is cash+loan+escrow balance. The rest is a dog and pony show for the benefit of others.