Has NASCAR finally jumped the shark?

[BertBeagle]

Originally posted by Rearden
In the April issue of Excellence, Johannes van Overbeek in a 997 GT3 turned a 1:23.5 at Sears Point. They mention that the NASCAR record is 1:15.9 with the same track configuration.

Those road races are going to be a blast to watch this year with JPM added to the mix.

The fastest NASCAR Nextel cup cars at Watkins Glen are as fast as the Daytona Prototype cars. They run the same track layout on the same weekend. They do it with a car that is much heavier and with 13" brakes.

[JCF]

I think the shark just jumped NASCAR - It is a sad day for auto racing when a golf match on a nearby channel is as exciting as cars going a buck 80.

What the heck was that ? ! ? The Daytona 500 or a demolition derby.
Once the two fastest cars went out the rest was anticlimax.

Impressive cars - truly talented drivers all - but PLEASE Mr. France, bring racing back to Nascar.

John

[dd74]

Did you guys see the finish? A three-lap sprint. Did you see the 2/100ths of a second difference between the first car and the second as they crossed the line for the win? Did you see the 18th car (I think) cross the start/finish line on its roof while on fire?

Yeah. It was a pretty boring race.

[JCF]

Yup, sit through a parade for 2 hrs and 59 minutes and a "race" breaks out - go figure.

: )

[CurtEgerer]

I watched the last 12 laps (when did they start having "overtime"?! What's next? On-side kicks and time-outs? ). At one point, the announcer guy screamed that there were still 38 cars within 2 seconds of each other ...... ummm, what was the point of the preceding 188 laps and the hundreds of passes and the hysterics of the announcers and fans with each pass? Answer: nothing - there's ALWAYS 30-40 cars within 2 seconds of each other no matter what lap it is. Like I said, only the last few laps need to be watched. Unfortunately, you normally need to watch a 20-car demolition derby on the last lap too! The sparks coming off the roof of the Number 33 Tide-Home Depot-Snickers-Viagra-HairClubforMen Chevy as it skidded down the track were really cool though ....

[VaSteve]

I like how the announcer said "there's 13 laps left, anything can happen..."


Um, except Tony Stewart winning.


The announcers are no better than news commentators when they have nothing to say.....just yammering on to fill the void.

[VINMAN]

I just dont get all the NASCAR hatred.
Is it just a by-product of Euro-car snobbery?? Im not a huge fan of NASCAR, but Ive seen some F-1 races that were about as exciting as a blade of grass growing. To me, watching a bunch of guys following the same guy for 50 laps is not exactly great racing either.

[JCF]

Originally posted by CurtEgerer
I watched the last 12 laps (when did they start having "overtime"?! What's next? On-side kicks and time-outs? ). At one point, the announcer guy screamed that there were still 38 cars within 2 seconds of each other ...... ummm, what was the point of the preceding 188 laps and the hundreds of passes and the hysterics of the announcers and fans with each pass? Answer: nothing - there's ALWAYS 30-40 cars within 2 seconds of each other no matter what lap it is. Like I said, only the last few laps need to be watched. Unfortunately, you normally need to watch a 20-car demolition derby on the last lap too! The sparks coming off the roof of the Number 33 Tide-Home Depot-Snickers-Viagra-HairClubforMen Chevy as it skidded down the track were really cool though ....

+ 1

[JCF]

Originally posted by VINMAN
I just dont get all the NASCAR hatred.
Is it just a by-product of Euro-car snobbery?? Im not a huge fan of NASCAR, but Ive seen some F-1 races that were about as exciting as a blade of grass growing. To me, watching a bunch of guys following the same guy for 50 laps is not exactly great racing either.

I don't HATE Nascar - it just sucks.

At least with F1 and sports car races you can watch how a car takes the lines and negotiates traffic.
With NASCAR it's like a moving traffic jam - a very fast one , but still...
The excitement is to watch how they don't hit each other - or how they do hit each other. Is that a race ?

John

[Rearden]

Originally posted by CurtEgerer
I watched the last 12 laps (when did they start having "overtime"?! What's next? On-side kicks and time-outs? ). At one point, the announcer guy screamed that there were still 38 cars within 2 seconds of each other ...... ummm, what was the point of the preceding 188 laps and the hundreds of passes and the hysterics of the announcers and fans with each pass? Answer: nothing - there's ALWAYS 30-40 cars within 2 seconds of each other no matter what lap it is. Like I said, only the last few laps need to be watched. Unfortunately, you normally need to watch a 20-car demolition derby on the last lap too! The sparks coming off the roof of the Number 33 Tide-Home Depot-Snickers-Viagra-HairClubforMen Chevy as it skidded down the track were really cool though ....

Oh well. At least you sort of gave it a chance.

[VINMAN]

I guess driving in a tight group of 30 or so cars within inches of each other at the speeds they run, is not considered skillful??

[JCF]

Who said they weren't skilled drivers? Certainly not me.

[cashflyer]

Semi related:

http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/35227/

Financial Inequalities
Written by: Robin Miller
Indianapolis, Ind. – 2/8/2007

While waiting for Champ Car to announce any driver, Gene Simmons to unveil another verse of "I Am Indy," and ESPN to give Michael Waltrip his own channel, all this down time gave me a chance to do a little research on the state of purses and payouts in American motorsports.

And the return vs. the investment.

As you might imagine, NASCAR Nextel Cup is so far ahead in this department it's embarassing.

Last year, Jimmie Johnson earned $8,909,140 in prize money for Hendrick Motorsport on his way to his initial title and that's not counting the $6,785,982 he received in series sponsor points.

That's $15,770,125 for those of you keeping score at home. FOR ONE TEAM!

The total payout (with no bonuses) for the 78 drivers who competed in one, some or all of the 36 events in 2006 was a staggering $219 million.

By comparison, the Indy Racing League dolled out a total of $24 million in purses ($10 million coming from the Indianapolis 500) with Sam Hornish Jr. collecting $3,835,205 for his third championship. That included $1 million bonus for capturing the title, not bad for 14 races.

But still way out of whack considering a budget to run up front is anywhere from $6-9 million per car.

Further north on Indy's westside, Champ Car paid $6,553,000 in purses to its competitors for 14 starts and another $1,550,000 in point money. Or about the same as Johnson's bonus check.

Even though a competitive budget for Champ Car might be as low as $5 million, the payout still explains why ride buyers can flourish in this series.

For his third consecutive championship and seven victories, Sebastien Bourdais grossed $1,282,500 and that included $500,000 for the title. To give you an idea of how disproportionate things are, Kenny Wallace finished 43rd in the Cup standings in 2006 and brought in more money ($1.3 million) than Bourdais.

And the second-tier Busch series even paid its champ (Kevin Harvick) $1.3 million.

In 13 seasons, Paul Tracy has racked up $12.3 million in earnings while Jeff Gordon has eclipsed $60 million during the same time frame.

But the bottom line is even sadder in sports cars.

The Grand Am series was founded and funded by NASCAR but you won't confuse it with the stock car division.

Other than the Rolex 24 Hours (which paid $100,000 to win last month), a victory in Jim France's series is worth a piddly $25,000 (unless you're not a member of the Pacesetter's Club and then it only pays $15,000).

There's quite a dropoff in the Daytona Prototypes at the big race since second is worth $35,000 and fifth brings in $10,000. "Not enough to pay the hotel bill," said one owner.

Chip Ganassi, whose budget with sponsor Telmex and Carlos Slim's deep pockets is thought to be in the $4 million range, raked in a whopping $150,000 in purse money last year for taking the 14-race team title.

Jorg Bergmeister, who captured the driver's crown, received a Rolex watch, a discount pass to Daytona USA and a firm handshake from president Roger Edmonson.

In the more sophisticated American Le Mans Series, where slick cars like the Audi and Porsche are seven-figure creations, the purses are also seven figures but only if you count cents.

The winner of this month's Mobil 1 12 Hours of Sebring classic will win $24,000 or, to be more precise, about $2,000 an hour which, ironically, is the going rate at a wind tunnel.

Honda is battling Porsche this season in LMP2 and they'll spend more on hospitality than their three-team lineup can earn.

ALMS also has a unique pay scale. If you are a full factory team, you are not eligible for prize money and, in 2005 at Sebring, 22 of the 38 starters got zero prize money.

My beloved USAC midget racing is also a financial train wreck. Engines can cost as much as $45,000 yet the purses have hardly increased since the 1970s and the winner is lucky to get $1,500 most nights.

At least you can go outlaw sprint car racing in Indiana for a reasonable amount of money and have a shot to win $4,000.

The Formula Atlantic series boasted a $2 million prize for the winner (Simon Pagenaud) to take to Champ Car and $3.7 million in purses while the IRL's Indy Pro Series is paying out $4 million in 2007 and offers as much as $41,000 for a win. An owner can't get rich running either open wheel feeder series but it's possible to survive.

Obviously, with Nextel, FOX, NBC, ABC, TNT, SPEED and ESPN spending hundreds of millions to be partners, it's good to be a car owner and better to be a driver in NASCAR's top tier.

Until IRL and Champ Car can secure a title sponsor, improve TV ratings substantially (or quit having to buy time) and find a way to put money into their teams (without Tony George, Kevin Kalkhoven and Gerald Forsythe writing checks), the economics of open wheel will be hopeless.

A good shoe in Champ Car or IRL can make a decent living off of their retainer but not many would want to make it on 40 percent of the purse (especially in Champ Car) like the old days.

Grand Am sports a ton of good drivers yet doesn't draw much of a crowd but it does have the France faction to keep things afloat while ALMS suddenly has some muscle from manufacturers and some momentum. But neither sports car series makes financial sense at the moment and drivers have to scramble to make a living.

And, if things weren't depressing enough for open wheel and sports cars after reading this, there was this headline in Wednesday's editions of USA Today: "$18 Million on Line at Daytona."

That's a whole year of Champ Car, IPS, Atlantics, USAC, ALMS and Grand Am in four hours.

[sammyg2]

Boring. Semi-staged. More of a show and spectacle than a real race.
Dummied down to try and keep a less sophisticated audience entertained for 5 hours.
Any one of the 25 cars on the lasat lap can win, it's just decided by luck. Not skill, not the best car, not the best driver, the luckiest. If one car steps out of line in order to pass and he doesn't get a bunch of other cars to go with him, he looses 15 spots. If someone gets a good push from the other drivers, he can win even if he has a slower car and less skill. Yeah that's racing, not.
I've tried to get into it, but I see through it like a freshly washed window.

[Dueller]

Originally posted by JCF
I don't HATE Nascar - it just sucks.

At least with F1 and sports car races you can watch how a car takes the lines and negotiates traffic.


John

Traffic? In an F1 race? OHHHHHHH....you mean the first 30 seconds of the race. After the first lap, its usually all over but the shouting. I mean, assuming the leader doesn't blow up.

[holtjv]

I had no interest in nascar until I went to a race--that was 2000 and have been going back (tms) each year ever since.

The campgrounds are a spectacle of america and then you get to see, hear, and smell the cars--very cool *****.

Starting in 2003 my company has sponsored a busch car so we've gone into the garage, pits, on the raceway during driver introduction, and so forth. Getting that close to the cars is incredible. We also started hiring motorhomes and camping on the grounds from thurs-sun, making it the ultimate guys weekend. None of the womenfolk have any desire to come.

I really intend on watching and enjoying a race on TV but end up getting bored and doing something else, then back to the race for the last 50 or so.

In short, I can see why you wouldn't be interested in nascar if you only saw it on tv. The full experience of camping with buddies, kegs of beer, t!tty alley, t!tty corner and..the race may change your mind. Absolutely hilarious stories that will last a lifetime.

j

[JCF]

Originally posted by Dueller
Traffic? In an F1 race? OHHHHHHH....you mean the first 30 seconds of the race. After the first lap, its usually all over but the shouting. I mean, assuming the leader doesn't blow up.

... and how about sports cars ? ( and no - I don't watch 24 hours of anything )
And if F1 races were 3 hours long I probably wouldn't sit through many.

Look , you like what you like and I'll watch what I like - Agreed ?

I for one will not be sucked in to wasting three hrs in front of a tv watching a traffic jam. I can drive down I 95 and see that - Besides it takes away from all the time I waste on the computer.

[Cornpanzer]

I watched it and it was VERY exciting...........

However, just because something is exciting does not make it good racing. There were two major pileups in the last 15 laps and nobody was suprised. Anyone watching from your 75 y.o. grandmother to your 5 y.o. son could have predicted that the last lap would have a huge wreck.

In my opinion, it is not a good thing that these drivers are allowed....nay, encouraged to go out and risk thier lives by running into each other. Real auto racing fans try to dispel the rumor that people only watch to see the wrecks.....and then you have NASCAR whose M.O. is "Rubbin is Racin". They limit the cars so much that they have exactly the same performance, will react exactly the same in any circumstance and are guarenteed at least one major wreck per race! Its not a auto race, it is a spectacle. What other racing expects and plans to have major accidents involving 8-10 cars at a time?

Anytime someone finishes a race by sliding across the finish line upside down and on fire is EXCITING! And NASCAR couldnt be happier because that sells tickets for next week. The driver survives with no injury, well thats just a bonus.

Taking this concept one step further, here is my proposal for NASCAR 2008. Put snipers at the finish line for the final three laps. These snipers will then shoot every third car that crosses the finish line!

Think of how EXCITING this will be! The drivers will have to demonstrate not only that they have the skill to win but that they can position themselves at the end of the final three laps so that they dont get shot. Its all about strategy and cunning and bravery. Sure, its dangerous for the drivers, but BABY THIS WILL SELL TICKETS!

[CurtEgerer]

Ahhh, the Death Race 2000 Sanction. It's inevitable.

[Cornpanzer]

Im not sure I would want to be in the Target car!