Held Hostage on Airplane for 10 hours!?? WTF!!!??

[fingpilot]

This problem has gotten worse since 9-11.

Getting the pax back to the terminal is only one small part of the picture. The pax will scatter and perhaps not come back to the plane when it IS ready to go again, but what about the baggage? One single pax gets off, and his bag has to be removed and stored somewhere. Or returned somewhere. Where? The gate is 'leased' by the minute, the lav and water services are prepaid, all of this is a wrench in the works. It sounds simple but it isn't. Between the TSA procedures and the stupid rules the airports have about who can use what gate ($$$$), it is a mess.

Now that that has been said? As Captain, I'd have found a way. Last month an American Airlines Captain lost his job when he taxied over to the private side of the airport and deplaned his pax at the FBO there after being ordered to stay clear of the gates for 7 hours after landing.

Granted, this was an arrival flight, and a gate was simply not available. Told all the pax in advance there would be no baggage services for the thru pax. Every single passenger agreed. He and the cabin crew got in the bins and passed the bags directly to the pax. It was an MD80, and he was able to lower the rear airstair door to get people off and on the ramp. Because of weight and cost, most other airliners no longer have integral airstair doors anymore.

He was later disciplined rather than fired. Bet he won't do that again.

[VINMAN]

There is no excuse for what happened ! The Port Authority has more than enough capability to have gotten those people off the planes and back into the terminal.

[on-ramp]

Originally posted by fingpilot
This problem has gotten worse since 9-11.

Getting the pax back to the terminal is only one art of the picture. The pax will scatter and perhaps not come back to the plane when it IS ready to go again, but what about the baggage? One single pax gets off, and his bag has to be removed and stored somewhere. Or returned somewhere. Where? The gate is 'leased' by the minute, the lav and water services are prepaid, all of this is a wrench in the works. It sounds simple but it isn't. Between the TSA procedures and the stupid rules the airports have about who can use what gate ($$$$), it is a mess.

thank you, sir. you've made my point.

[widgeon13]

And your point is???

The passengers are not allowed to deplane due to security reasons not economic reasons. The PIC of the aircraft more than likely is given directions to vacate the gate and taxi to a holding area. LaGuardia is run by a state agency, not the airlines, Port Authority, I believe.

Unfortunately air travel today is very similar to bus travel and price is similar as well so basically you get what you pay for.

[on-ramp]

Originally posted by widgeon13
And your point is???

The passengers are not allowed to deplane due to security reasons not economic reasons. The PIC of the aircraft more than likely is given directions to vacate the gate and taxi to a holding area. LaGuardia is run by a state agency, not the airlines, Port Authority, I believe.

Unfortunately air travel today is very similar to bus travel and price is similar as well so basically you get what you pay for.

it's 100% economic reasons. there's nothing unsecure or unsafe about bringing the plane back to the terminal to unload , or get a staircase out there, rather than being trapped in a coffin for 10 hrs.

[dd74]

Beeyotch all you want. The airlines don't give a crap because they're legally absolved from detriment of service due to acts of nature...which this was.

[widgeon13]

Good point.

[on-ramp]

Originally posted by dd74
Beeyotch all you want. The airlines don't give a crap because they're legally absolved from detriment of service due to acts of nature...which this was.

nope. here's the deal. when you buy that ticket, you enter into a contract with the airline. they have an obligation to provide you with "reasonable comfort" and to provide for your saftety and to get you to your destination in a reasonable amount of time. If enough passengers file a class-action lawsuit against Jet-Blue in this case, Jet-blue is screwed. no jury can come to the determination that suffereing 10 hrs aboard an aircraft sitting on the tarmac is "reasonable comfort". even a caveman like me without 36 yrs aviation experience knew that.

[dd74]

Originally posted by on-ramp
nope. here's the deal. when you buy that ticket, you enter into a contract with the airline. they have an obligation to provide you with "reasonable comfort" and to provide for your saftety and to get you to your destination in a reasonable amount of time. If enough passengers file a class-action lawsuit against Jet-Blue in this case, Jet-blue is screwed. no jury can come to the determination that suffereing 10 hrs aboard an aircraft sitting on the tarmac is "reasonable comfort". even a caveman like me without 36 yrs aviation experience knew that.

Even a caveman like you needs to brush up a bit on aviation-related law. Or listen to the news. Your lamentations (are they really "yours?" Were you on this flight?) have already been heard on TV and in the papers, which determine the passengers on this flight are simply SOL. Again, the airlines are not held liable for acts of God/nature. How much more clear can that be?

So with that, I'll see your and raise you a

[on-ramp]

Originally posted by dd74
Even a caveman like you needs to brush up a bit on aviation-related law. Or listen to the news. Your lamentations (are they really "yours?" Were you on this flight?) have already been heard on TV and in the papers, which determine the passengers on this flight are simply SOL. Again, the airlines are not held liable for acts of God/nature. How much more clear can that be?

So with that, I'll see your and raise you a

that's bull$hit - they could've gotten those people off the plane after 3 hrs if they wanted to. it's inexcusable. it's not about God/nature or any of that crap. it's about $$$$

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
NC,

If they push you back from the jetway and another plane takes its place, there are times that there is just no way to unload the jet.

That's not true. There's the airstair, which if the aircraft has no power can be manually deployed. If you don't know that, well, what can I say?

I have to tell the truth that I would not put up with treatment like this myself. I would call 911 and tell the police that I was being held hostage on a jet by the crew. They will not fly, they will not offload the jet and I am not feeling well and requesting medical attention. Period, end of story, either get me to my destination, let me off here or face legal prosecution.

That's one way. There are several other ways, some of which are even lawful.

Believe that the pax will file a lawsuit on this and hope they win. Its been done before and the airlines (not Jet Blue BTW) lost.

As well they should.

[Moneyguy1]

Another case of the people willing to be treated in a cavalier way and others acting as apologists for this kind of behaviour. Sorry...economics or no, try sitting in a plane for ten hours straight. My butt used to get mighty antsy after a 6 hour cross country trip from NY to AZ.

[dd74]

Originally posted by on-ramp
that's bull$hit - they could've gotten those people off the plane after 3 hrs if they wanted to. it's inexcusable. it's not about God/nature or any of that crap. it's about $$$$

Okay, Chief.

[island911]

Originally posted by on-ramp
that's bull$hit - they could've gotten those people off the plane after 3 hrs if they wanted to. . .

I dunno. . . did Jimmy Carter give it a try?

[bell]

not to veer off topic but onramp.....your avitar is the creepy kid from american idol......made me laugh, thanks

i was stuck in pittsburgh one year (2 stop trip.....pre-911) on the way back from cancun.......charter flight.....sat in the plane waiting to take off for 4 hours because a handler screwed up someones customs forms, or lost them or something......

to top it off we were going to miss a bad storm which our pilot had mentioned after landing....but 4 hours later it was on top of us and made for a very rough flight.....i wasn't a happy camper.....but at least we were permitted to smoke back then....i had one of 4 "reserved smoking" seats, i was selling it to other smokers for $1 for 5 minutes.....i think i made about $20

[pwd72s]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
Excuse me. Are not you the person who is so afraid to fly that he did not go to the superbowl recently because he was afraid to get on the jet????

Next time please take a bus and stick to the radical left causes in the future.

Hey Joe...defend your industry all you wish. Any common carrier that won't let me carry my 3 bladed Case knife, or even my pool cues aboard? Screw 'em...I won't go or I'll find another way to get there. I'm a conservative right wing whacko...far as I'm concerned, politics has nothing to do with it. Prior to 9-11-01, I thought flying to get somewhere was a generally miserable experience. Today? I figure there is nowhere I want to go badly enough to get on airplane to get there, and cost has nothing to do with it. I'd rather drive for 16 hours than fly for 3...no fear involved in this decision, just personal comfort and freedom. Dig?

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by dd74
Even a caveman like you needs to brush up a bit on aviation-related law. Or listen to the news. Your lamentations (are they really "yours?" Were you on this flight?) have already been heard on TV and in the papers, which determine the passengers on this flight are simply SOL. Again, the airlines are not held liable for acts of God/nature. How much more clear can that be?

So with that, I'll see your and raise you a

Its a lost argument. Reality and OR are not one here.

Slopat, not every airplane has onboard stairs these days. Yes in the old B-727 and DC-9 days they did but not today. If the jetway is full with other airplanes then you sit and wait until its clear, or you can do as the American Captain did and then lose your job. Your choice and if I was in the left seat it would not be an easy choice either.

Personally I would find a passenger on board who felt medically that they had to get off of the jet and use that as a reason to call the airport authority and offload the pax using the portable stairs that they can pull to the bird.

Paul,

I agree and if I need to get somewhere and its a 5 hour drive or less, I take the car these days. The TSA and their minions have made traveling a bear and its just not worth it if the destination is not real far away. Then you mention having to check certain items then the apes below steal half of them really pisses me off. Its like legalized robbery.