PC vs Mac

[Ronbo]

Originally posted by Hoots
I use NeoOffice. It is a free download. It is a little slow loading, but it works great.

I'll second the NeoOffice recommendation. Never had a problem opening Word or Excel files made on a PC. There is a new version (2.0 Beta 3) that's Intel native and loads much faster than the previous version.

[nostatic]

I'm using Entourage but only for the calendar functions as we are on exchange. Works great for that. It is *not* a great email client if you have large email stores. I use the Apple mail client for that and aside from some minor quibbles, it has been fine. I have a TON of email too...stuff going back about 10 years.

The only compatibility issue I've seen concerns video usage between platforms, and that is often traced to not having the right codec to play the video. Also, the new version of Office on the PC side uses and XML spec that doesn't play well with anything else. Translator/filters are being worked on to deal with that, but I have yet to find anyone that has that version. The next version of Office for Mac will not have any issues. And most people who use both platforms say that the Mac version of Office is actually more elegant and better designed than the windows version. In part because the Mac business unit "gets it". Much to the chagrin of other parts of MS...

[stomachmonkey]

Originally posted by nostatic
...concerns video usage between platforms, and that is often traced to not having the right codec to play the video...

That's correct. Out of the box Quicktime will handle consumer level needs.

Toss in DVIX and ffmpeg for free and you're covered for just about any thing that will come your way.

[Moses]

Originally posted by lendaddy

Moses was telling me about parallels, but I forgot to ask him if the files created in "Windows mode" have compatability issues.

No compatability issues. Keep in mind that Parallels is a "last resort". It's always easier and nicer to stay with the Mac OS. I use Mac Office for Word/Powerpoint/Excel/Entourage.

I use Parallels to access a secure internet database (medical) that can only be accessed through Windows/Explorer. These sites are exceedingly rare, by the way.

If I were a new Mac user, I'b buy Office for Mac. The real treat though is exploring iLife. Great stuff.

[stomachmonkey]

Len,

when you are running parralels you are running a virtual machine.

think of it as picture in picture. you are running a regular off the shelf version of XP and PC applications. it's not a "mode" they are native within their operating system.

[lendaddy]

Ok, that makes sense. But the competing views on compatibility are what is stopping me. For instance I KNOW that my wife has sent me files from her MAC (can't recall if they were office or .pdf or .Zip or what) but I could not open them. Others have said they have seen problems as well. Then there are those that say there are no problems or that if there are they are really caused by X Y or Z. But the point remains that people do/will have file problems between the two(for whatever reason) and my customers don't want that song and dance, they just want to open the file with a click.

Did that make sense?

So, if the parallels thing is every bit as reliable or more so than a windows machine(when running windows) and the files are identical then I would probably use Windows for everything and only browse in OSX. But, if my customers are sending me autocad files or other files where no Mac solution exists(or is a pain in the ass), then suddenly I'm back in the virus/ad-ware game (which is my only reason for considering this).

[Moses]

Len, the Mac will be perfect for you. Just use Office for Mac. There will be no issues with readability. You will be using Word/Excel/Entourage/Powerpoint.

I don't think you'll even need Parallels.

The problems arise if you send a PC user a document created with Appleworks (Which you won't need to do.)

[stomachmonkey]

Originally posted by lendaddy
Ok, that makes sense. But the competing views on compatibility are what is stopping me. For instance I KNOW that my wife has sent me files from her MAC (can't recall if they were office or .pdf or .Zip or what) but I could not open them. Others have said they have seen problems as well. Then there are those that say there are no problems or that if there are they are really caused by X Y or Z. But the point remains that people do/will have file problems between the two(for whatever reason) and my customers don't want that song and dance, they just want to open the file with a click.

Did that make sense?

So, if the parallels thing is every bit as reliable or more so than a windows machine(when running windows) and the files are identical then I would probably use Windows for everything and only browse in OSX. But, if my customers are sending me autocad files or other files where no Mac solution exists(or is a pain in the ass), then suddenly I'm back in the virus/ad-ware game (which is my only reason for considering this).

The "incompatabilities" issue was directly related to the way the OS's handled files.

With PC's you had the old 8.3 limitation, a file name could not be longer than 8 characters and had a 3 character extension that identified what program it belonged to.

With Macs you had 2 parts to a every file, a data fork that was the actual data. and a resource fork that contained the icon and info to tell the OS what app to use.

So you had 2 issues, Mac users were using longer filenames and never appended a file extension. So when it went to the PC it lost the resource fork and had no extension so Windows did not know what to do with it. All anyone had to do was add the proper extension and everything worked fine.

Oddly enough these days Windows hides the extensions by default while OS X adds them to just about everything by default.

So long story short, the incompatabilities were insignificant, most of it was end user related.

Scott

[nostatic]

and in Apple mail when you send an attachment there is a checkbox for helping to ensure windows compatibility of the document. I'm still not sure what it does, but to date I can count on one hand the number of documents I've had trouble with sending out and having people able to read. And that is on the order of tens of thousands of documents. You'll find similar if not higher numbers of people sending corrupt files between windows users. Sometimes things just get messed up...

[stomachmonkey]

And Moses is correct. Doubt you'll find a need for it.

I use it because I develop visual materials and code that needs to work across Windows, OS X and other .nix's.

For instance all web browsers are supposed to adhere to standards but they simply don't, IE being the worst offender, so something that looks correct in Firefox on a Mac may be totally hosed in IE on a PC so I need to test everything.


Rather than having to move from machine to machine to test the stuff I run virtual machines, one with XP, one with Linux and just cycle thru windows to test my stuff.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by stomachmonkey

So long story short, the incompatabilities were insignificant, most of it was end user related.

Scott

That's not insignificant at all. It doesn't matter whos fault it is if the problem exists. You certainly don't expect every user to know about the extensions do you? Especialy when these files get "chain-mailed" down the customer line. Like I said earlier, all they will know is that the damn file isn't opening.


Regardless, I do appreciate you explaining what was happening, I had never heard that before.

[techweenie]

Originally posted by stomachmonkey
The "incompatabilities" issue was directly related to the way the OS's handled files.

With PC's you had the old 8.3 limitation, a file name could not be longer than 8 characters and had a 3 character extension that identified what program it belonged to.

With Macs you had 2 parts to a every file, a data fork that was the actual data. and a resource fork that contained the icon and info to tell the OS what app to use.

So you had 2 issues, Mac users were using longer filenames and never appended a file extension. So when it went to the PC it lost the resource fork and had no extension so Windows did not know what to do with it. All anyone had to do was add the proper extension and everything worked fine.

Oddly enough these days Windows hides the extensions by default while OS X adds them to just about everything by default.

So long story short, the incompatabilities were insignificant, most of it was end user related.

Scott

That's a good explanation. Many apps on the Mac give you the option of appending a file extension. I've been using a Mac almost excusively since January 1984. Since '91 I've made my main Mac a laptop. The exceptions have been a couple of times that I had extended consulting gigs and needed to use an office-provided PC.

I'm now the only Mac user in an office of 11, but within 2 months, a senior programmer and the head of sales are both converting to Macs. The impaired productivity of a malware-prone platform has finally gotten to them.

Further, our 'groupware' now is all moved to Google apps.

One other thing, now that I think about it: when people in our office have files they aren't sure of -- trust or origin -- they bring them to me, because there is no risk to my platform in opening them.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by techweenie
but within 2 months, a senior programmer and the head of sales are both converting to Macs. The impaired productivity of a malware-prone platform has finally gotten to them.

There it is, my concern is the same.

[techweenie]

Originally posted by lendaddy
There it is, my concern is the same.

It's a key reason Mac sales appear to have gone up 47% in the past 6 months.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by techweenie
I'm now the only Mac user in an office of 11, but within 2 months, a senior programmer and the head of sales are both converting to Macs. The impaired productivity of a malware-prone platform has finally gotten to them.

We used to joke about that; PC users would say, there's 10,000 programs out there for PC's, and only 10 for a Mac. We Mac guys would say, yeah, but 9,999 of the PC programs crash a lot, or doesn't work at all.

Exaggerations, sure, but not far enough off.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by fastpat
We used to joke about that; PC users would say, there's 10,000 programs out there for PC's, and only 10 for a Mac. We Mac guys would say, yeah, but 9,999 of the PC programs crash a lot, or doesn't work at all.

Exaggerations, sure, but not far enough off.

Actually I have zero problems with the operating system or the programs. Were it not for malware I wouldn't have any reason to consider this.

I admit the MAC machines are well/over built, but almost to the point of why.

[techweenie]

Originally posted by lendaddy
Actually I have zero problems with the operating system or the programs. Were it not for malware I wouldn't have any reason to consider this.

I admit the MAC machines are well/over built, but almost to the point of why.

Substitute "911" for "Mac" and you may figure it out.

:-)

[nostatic]

Originally posted by lendaddy
Actually I have zero problems with the operating system or the programs. Were it not for malware I wouldn't have any reason to consider this.

I admit the MAC machines are well/over built, but almost to the point of why.

the malware is a direct result of the OS...so you do have problems with the OS.

Macs are built wrt form *and* function. MS and most hardware manufacturers don't really grasp either concept very well.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by techweenie
Substitute "911" for "Mac" and you may figure it out.

:-)

I don't lack for performance with my machines now. I never thought of computing as a visceral experience like riding a motorcycle or driving a car.

disclaimer: My work machine is getting long in the tooth, but no more performance challenged than a MAC of the era.

Todd: Fair point on the OS being open to this crap. I am not knowledgeable enough in that area to claim otherwise. My general philosophy on life leads me to believe MS is too big to be a truly cutting edge/effective company anymore.

[nostatic]

True enough Len. As an example, do you know anyone with an MS Smartphone of WM5 device? I have both. Use them daily. Now go to:

http://www.apple.com/iphone/

And watch the videos. Whole other world. The MS stuff look/feel/function is an embarassment compared to that. As soon as the iPhone is out my MS handheld things are going on ebay or in the trash.