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Cars & Coffee Killer
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: State of Failure
Posts: 32,246
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Ethanol Increases Smog
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070418/ap_on_he_me/ethanol_health_risks
Quote:
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Some Porsches long ago...then a wankle... 5 liters of VVT fury now -Chris "There is freedom in risk, just as there is oppression in security." |
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04-18-2007, 07:11 AM
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Dog-faced pony soldier
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Sure does taste good though.
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A car, a 911, a motorbike and a few surfboards Black Cars Matter |
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04-18-2007, 07:31 AM
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Cars & Coffee Killer
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: State of Failure
Posts: 32,246
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I prefer mine at around a 6% concentration, made from hops and barley. My wife complains about the smog though...
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Some Porsches long ago...then a wankle... 5 liters of VVT fury now -Chris "There is freedom in risk, just as there is oppression in security." |
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04-18-2007, 07:34 AM
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Dog-faced pony soldier
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Especially when preceded or accompanied by ingestion of organic legume-based product typically favored by our neighbors to the South.
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A car, a 911, a motorbike and a few surfboards Black Cars Matter |
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04-18-2007, 08:15 AM
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Detached Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: southern California
Posts: 26,964
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No surprise here. Ethanol has a higher vapor pressure than gasoline and evaporates faster. This has been known by air pollution agencies for years.
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Hugh |
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04-18-2007, 08:16 AM
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Location: So. Cal.
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Why don't we ever see in the news how inefficient ethanol is? From what I understand it is only about 70% as efficient as gasoline, and therefore wont we need to burn much mroe of it, thereby producing more greenhouse gases?
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David 1972 911T/S MFI Survivor |
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04-18-2007, 08:21 AM
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Detached Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: southern California
Posts: 26,964
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I used to use ARCO gas in my Mazda 626 and got consistently 19 mpg, I switched to Chevron and it consistenly went up to 21 mpg. I'm talking about 8 years of driving with ARCO and the last 2 years with Chevron, its my 10 y/o daily beater, driver.
So roughtly a 10% increase in MPG. If ARCO is not 10% less than Chevron, don't buy it. Also, ARCO now charges 45 cents ATM transaction fee, with a 10 gallon tank, that an additonal 4.5 cents/gallon that you have to factor in. BTW, ARCO gas is coincidently 10% ethanol, so what are you getting? Answer ... filler.
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Hugh Last edited by Hugh R; 04-18-2007 at 08:28 AM.. |
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04-18-2007, 08:26 AM
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Location: Linn County, Oregon
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Pretty simple really...Gasoline has approx. 125,000 BTU's per gallon. Alcohol has approx. 75,000. You must burn more alcohol to get the same energy as in any given volume of gasoline. Ahhhh, but the tax you pay at the pump? The same per gallon...
who really wins here?
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"Now, to put a water-cooled engine in the rear and to have a radiator in the front, that's not very intelligent." -Ferry Porsche (PANO, Oct. '73) (I, Paul D. have loved this quote since 1973. It will remain as long as I post here.) |
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04-18-2007, 08:32 AM
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Posts: 944
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Anyone ever see the jets in an alcohol burning race motor?
BIG. End of story. Tom
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R Gruppe #111 Early S Registry #235 res ipsa loquitur |
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04-18-2007, 08:56 AM
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Location: Tucson AZ USA
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Still, it is a case of import vs. domestic capability. In either case, hydrocarbons have a limited future because the supplies are limited. We need alternatives that take advantage of other technologies, whether they be nuclear solar, geothermal, wind. Perhaps none of these is a universal solution, but together......
How long should we fund those who fight against us?
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Bob S. former owner of a 1984 silver 944 |
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04-18-2007, 09:01 AM
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Location: Austin, TX
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Why not butanol? From what I read, it's just MUCH better than ethanol, and can be used as an almost 1:1 replacement for gasoline...
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Matt J. 69 911T Targa - "Stinky" 2001 Boxster "Stahlgewehr" |
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04-18-2007, 12:12 PM
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Cars & Coffee Killer
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: State of Failure
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What is butanol made from?
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Some Porsches long ago...then a wankle... 5 liters of VVT fury now -Chris "There is freedom in risk, just as there is oppression in security." |
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04-18-2007, 12:18 PM
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Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 944
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The government will eventually get around to taxing me for my cattle. You see, they fart... a lot. (You would too if you ate corn and grass.)
It will be an Al Gore "green tax" and it will be BS (sorry, couldn't help it). The earth has heated up since the last ice age and while I'm sure that some linkage might be made to the industrialization of the world I'm sure not going back to a friggin' cave anytime soon. Al Gore is as full of it as my bulls. When he drives a POS S-BOX Mini-Mobile I'll drive one. Until then, KMA and leave me alone. Right now corn prices are silly and cattle prices have been weak. Why? Because corn is expensive to buy as you are competing with the ethanol producers. Cattle eat corn. Who wins? Not the cattle. Makes complete sense; right? (Only our leaders could screw up a wet dream.) I also blame the grain lobby, big gas and anyone else that believes this load of crap. Also and FWIW, when diesel fuel had it's aromatics changed in the process of removing sulfer it screwed up the "old" seals on a lot of diesel engines. Mercedes, Ford and others know. My experience was a $1,400 bill from MB for my dad's car which with 110,000 miles ran perfectly until the second tank of low sulfer. Alcohol does not like a lot of things and will damage a car not meant to run on it. It will CLEAN a gas tank nicely and send it all to the engine. Beautiful thinking on the part of some not so deep thinkers. FWIW, we're planting about 80% corn this year because we are greedy Americans and want to get ours while we can.  I feel a damn sight better now... Tom
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R Gruppe #111 Early S Registry #235 res ipsa loquitur |
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04-18-2007, 12:40 PM
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Ethanol was promoted more as a way to reduce 'energy dependence' than as a lower-pollution solution. It wasn't an EPA-driven concept.
Bob Dole, known as "the senator from ADM" was a big proponent of getting an Ethanol content mandate into law. It finally happened in '05.
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techweenie | techweenie.com Marketing Consultant (expensive!) 1969 coupe hot rod 2016 Tesla Model S dd/parts fetcher |
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04-18-2007, 12:54 PM
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Well, to heck with him too.
Tom
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R Gruppe #111 Early S Registry #235 res ipsa loquitur |
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04-18-2007, 01:02 PM
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Location: Linn County, Oregon
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To HECK with ALGORE you say? Oh...yeah, moderators...
 Hey guys, did you know that Turkey still has leaded gasoline? Yup, the stuff our pre alcohol cars were designed to run on...
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"Now, to put a water-cooled engine in the rear and to have a radiator in the front, that's not very intelligent." -Ferry Porsche (PANO, Oct. '73) (I, Paul D. have loved this quote since 1973. It will remain as long as I post here.) |
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04-18-2007, 01:15 PM
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Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 2,271
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Quote:
The same stuff ethanol is made from. Not sure if it's legit, but here's some site about it, http://www.butanol.com/
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Matt J. 69 911T Targa - "Stinky" 2001 Boxster "Stahlgewehr" |
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04-18-2007, 02:03 PM
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Sinister Dove
Gemini Boomerang
Porsche 996 Turbo Convertible
996 Turbo
