The Delusional Mr Perle

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The sugar in the Kool Aid that Richard Perle has been drinking has candiy coated Richard Perles world view.

I watched Perles on the PBS doucumentary Series America At A Crossroads. Unbelieveable is all I can really say, and this guy had his hands on the levers of American Military Policy. I say for shame that anybody would let him near anything. If he wants to be in government service perhaps being a Dog Catcher would be about his level of competency.

The fundlemental mistake that he makes is that he doesn't take into account the Culture, Mores, Traditions and History of the people that he want to enlighten with American style Democracy. Perle believes that there is an American waiting to get out, inside of everyperson in the world. He doesn't seem to realize that the rise of Islamofacism is a direct repudiation of Americas meddling in the Muslim world. Yet he blithly continues on believing one shoe fits all.

MR PERLE off to the ashcan of History with U. There is after all a difference between reality and delusion in the world.

[Moneyguy1]

How do we convince the public and especially our leadership that the "American Way" is not easily adapted to other cultures and should not be? What would it take to convince people that there are situations in which we (America) is not always "right"? What would it take to eliminate the emotional call to action and replace it with a measured, rational response?

[john70t]

One of the reasons we've had 60 years of peace and prosperity from Japan and Germany after WW2 (besides the threat of the Soviet Communist alternative and hard core elimination of all resistance) was the quick rebuilding and fair humanitarian policys that "won" the hearts of the general populous.

Neither seem to be planned into Iwreck.

[red-beard]

It is the Whitemans burden to bring civilization to the heathen/barbarians

[Moneyguy1]

You are kidding (I hope....)

[Jim727]

Good assessment, Tabs.

I do, however, think the threat of the Islamists is underestimated by all. It's not just us they hate - it's everyone that isn't living under an Islamist theocracy and behaving precisely as instructed. Then we'll have wars between rival Islamist theocratic factions who think the other faction's brand of fundamentalism is evil. These guys are incredibly dangerous and the delusional club Perle belongs to have amplified the danger.

[tabs]

I don't underestimate the threat..in the 100 years after the founding of Islam it spread from Mecca to the Alantic in the West to tht Pacific in the East. It finally wasn't kicked out of Spain until 1492, nor defeated at the gates of Vienna until the 1600s (my date might be off).

The West was/is preordained to act in a heavy handed manner which would accerabte the situation. It is how the West deals with problems in a Quanitative manner.

[Aurel]

Originally posted by Jim727
Good assessment, Tabs.

I do, however, think the threat of the Islamists is underestimated by all. It's not just us they hate - it's everyone that isn't living under an Islamist theocracy and behaving precisely as instructed. Then we'll have wars between rival Islamist theocratic factions who think the other faction's brand of fundamentalism is evil. These guys are incredibly dangerous and the delusional club Perle belongs to have amplified the danger.

On the contrary, I think that the threat of islamofascits is greatly exagerated, especially the threat directed against the US homeland. The recent shooting at Virgina Tech has demonstrated it to me once and for all: what Cho the nutcase did, any islamic terrorist could have done, with more victims, in more campuses. But it did not happen. Why?

Aurel

[Porsche-O-Phile]

"They hate our freedom".

[Jim727]

Agreed on all counts, Tabs. The word "malignant" comes to mind.

When I say the threat is underestimated it's because we in the Western World like everything to exist in our time frames (wars take four years, right?) and to be wrapped up neatly (overtime until someone wins). Because of this we tend to frame this as a battle where some form of combat will defeat the enemy and we go on about our lives. What it really is, however, is a war of civilizations. The battle-space includes secular education and government, rights of individuals, etc. - basically the stuff of our Bill of Rights.

Our "conservative" faction has no stomach for the hearts-and-minds battle.
Our "liberal" faction has no stomach for the physical battle.

A clash of civilizations, not a clash of armies; very few understand the gravity of it all, I think.

[Rearden]

Originally posted by Aurel
On the contrary, I think that the threat of islamofascits is greatly exagerated, especially the threat directed against the US homeland. The recent shooting at Virgina Tech has demonstrated it to me once and for all: what Cho the nutcase did, any islamic terrorist could have done, with more victims, in more campuses. But it did not happen. Why?

Aurel

I know two terrorist-aged Muslims from the Middle East. One, the male from Bahrain, is questioned extensively when he comes back through customs. The other, a woman from Dubai, was not allowed back in the country for two months while she was checked out. Both are professionals with graduate degrees.

Why hasn't it happened? Some luck, sure. But also a lot of hard work and new post-9/11 rules.

[Jim727]

Originally posted by Aurel
On the contrary, I think that the threat of islamofascits is greatly exagerated, especially the threat directed against the US homeland. The recent shooting at Virgina Tech has demonstrated it to me once and for all: what Cho the nutcase did, any islamic terrorist could have done, with more victims, in more campuses. But it did not happen. Why?

Aurel

Aurel - your focus is too narrow. The threat is not an isolated nutcase, it's a marrow-deep fervor.

Test the waters: open a school in [insert city - Baghdad, Tehran, Damascus, etc.] and start teaching women anything but the Koran and subservience. See how long you last.

[Aurel]

Originally posted by Jim727
Aurel - your focus is too narrow. The threat is not an isolated nutcase, it's a marrow-deep fervor.

Test the waters: open a school in [insert city - Baghdad, Tehran, Damascus, etc.] and start teaching women anything but the Koran and subservience. See how long you last.

My point exactly: if you go in their homeland, and try to teach them your ways, you will get a terrorist response. But they are not coming in your homeland trying to teach you their way of life, are they?

Aurel

[Jim727]

Originally posted by Aurel
My point exactly: if you go in their homeland, and try to teach them your ways, you will get a terrorist response. But they are not coming in your homeland trying to teach you their way of life, are they?

Aurel

Yes, they are - precisely the point. The viewpoint of any militant religious fundamentalist (of any stripe) is that *you* must live the way their beliefs say you should. Your beliefs are irrelevant at best, heretical probably. Listen to the pronouncements. "Kill the Infidel" - it isn't "Kill the Infidel if they happen to be in Mecca".

[Aurel]

Originally posted by Jim727
Yes, they are - precisely the point. The viewpoint of any militant religious fundamentalist (of any stripe) is that *you* must live the way their beliefs say you should. Your beliefs are irrelevant at best, heretical probably. Listen to the pronouncements. "Kill the Infidel" - it isn't "Kill the Infidel if they happen to be in Mecca".

No, they are not. On the other hand, we, the westerners, are in their land, with military force, trying to convert them to our way of life. The viewpoint of the US governemt is that they must live by the western standards of democracy. They hate less our freedom than us trying to impose it on them. But I agree, it is a clash of civilizations.

Aurel

[Jim727]

Aurel - it's not either/or. Our mistake is acknowledged (at least by me). We can pull out and sit on our hands here, it won't change their history of militantly spreading Islam or the desire to see everyone everywhere converted.

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The will of Allah and Democracy are at odds that will never coincide. The laws of the Koran are of Allah, Democracys are made by men and not Alllah. Allah doesn't need the consent of man to govern.