yeah, my ex was miserable, she thought it was me, after we ened our relationship, she still looked pretty miserable to me.
I was doing alright. then I messed up big time.
I might tell you about it some time.

I gather from this and past posts of yours that there is little place in your thinking for having a person's self awareness leading to changing of attitude and behaviour to make a relationship work? Or do I misread your concepts?

I am pretty self aware and know of the painful part. I guess the idea I would put forward is that sometimes you have to give up something to get something.....

A trivial example...early in our marriage I learned my wife is pretty content with an untidy house, I am a bit of a neat freak. Led to some friction and unhappiness, could have led to WWIII.....the communication part you mention was the right way out in that case, we ended up getting a housekeeper in every couple of weeks to keep the cooties from taking over the world, we both put out some extra effort, my wife on tidying a bit more, me on tolerating a bit of untidiness and doing it myself when it gets annoying. Been no problem. I changed. She changed. It works.

So, in this case. Husband was upset (with justification), wife does some stuff that most of us would be annoyed with but she seems to be OK with it. What to do?

I am surprised when a lot of people go immediately into....lets start getting the divorce lined up rather than maybe just getting together and talking. How about a couple of bottles of wine, 4 hours in bed alternatively knocking the guts out of the problem and screwing each others brains out? How about maybe not going home early? How about agreeing that both of you will leave at the same time, all the time....and then working at having a good time longer in his case and shorter in hers?

I guess I just don't get other people's approach to relationships...must be too stupid. Sigh.

Dennis

+1 on everything.

it's a game. It will always end up like this. I've dealt with this issue a few times and I've always sat calmly, and listened to the excuse, and inevitably the I'm sorry"

-When it becomes a pattern, I don't come back or end it shortly thereafter. A pattern like that isn't accidental, it's a setup.

Fortunately, whom I'm with understood what happened, and I haven't had an issue with it to that extent. If her getting intoxicated with friends means "that much" to her, then there's something else going on - no one misses their friends that much to wind up that way. It's immature and a sign of a greater avoidance problem- she's not home for a reason, hopefully it's not due to someone else.

If she wants to wallow in alcohol and misery, let her. Just don't go down with the ship. If it's at that point, it's too late to save IMHO.

rjp

you very much misread. I believe that self awareness, usually through working with a therapist, is the only way that you can change your attitudes and behaviors...and hence the only way to make a relationship work. If you don't know what drives you to certain behaviors, then you'll never be able to change them (assuming you want to). I see too many people who go through a bunch of failed relatioships then sit there talking about how screwed up their ex's were. Hello? What is one constant over all those failed relationships?

You are right that there are other ways to deal with this. We don't have enough information, and we probably shouldn't. But in my experience, if there are problems like this and people are in their 40's and have not embarked on some serious personal discovery, then there is little hope of much good coming of things. The best you can hope for is tolerating each other's crap and dulling the misery with alchohol, tv, food, etc.

I won't date a woman who hasn't done therapy. And I won't consider another marriage unless that woman is willing to go to couples therapy before the wedding. Just to help figure out what the issues are, where the triggers are, and start to address them. I do not believe you have to spend your life navel gazing, but it does help to at least stop and think about wtf is going on in your life and why.

nostatic? Don't qualify it. Just don't get married again.

naw, i'll get married again. I like being in a relationship. Hopefully I've figured out enough of my own crap that I'll pick the right one this time. 3rd time's a charm, right? ;)

Nice way to ensure that all the women you date will be "troubled".

I've never had therapy and neither has my wife. We've been married 25 years. Here's my alternative to therapy:

I know what my flaws are. I'm impatient, I cannot tolerate boredom and I tend to immerse myself ( a little obsessively) in things that fascinate me (the Porsche, flyfishing, golf) You name it. Not exactly a balanced approach to life. My wife has problems, too. But they are different. She's always late, I'm punctual. She can be moody. Bottom line? I accept her imperfections and she forgives mine. We love each other. I respect and admire her more than I can say. We find a way to get through life without focusing on the darker corners of our personalities.

Bottom line? Marry someone whose kindness and charachter you respect. Their faults will seem trivial. Not suggesting this is the answer for everyone, but it's worked for me.

1) I came to the realization in college that no one is perfect. I made a list of what faults I absolutely could not tolerate in a mate (the list is different for everyone). If someone displayed one of these, I ended the relationship. No fault of theirs, but continuing the relationship was pointless.

2) http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1177990787.jpg

troubled? yeah, but so am I :p

I would offer that you're both pretty self aware. And lucky. Many/most are not. I've run into very few people that couldn't benefit from some therapy.

LOL!

+51

Oh yeah Moses, I think we were separated at birth and our wives are cousins.....


Dennis

Back to basics.
When a party says "I'll be right after you" they wont. Its a cover line for wanting to stay much longer and it gets the other party on the way home.
So basically its a lie.
Next issue to cover is why did she want to stay in the first place? Who was it at the party that she wanted to stay longer with? Was it just the fun of the group or was it an individual?
Parties tend to dwindle down to a few drunks at the end - often with a bit of smooching on the dance floor.
Beware - the pattern you describe fits exactly my ex wifes behaviour when she was contemplating an affair.

The only thing I have to add is that before I read the post when you said you were both in your 40's I would have guessed you were both in your early 20's. That is some weird behavior for a woman in her 40's that wants to stay married.

Dueller -- so?

As it happens, you'd commented on a thread I'd posted several weeks ago about difficulty (read: "impossibility") of communication with certain members of the opposite sex.

If you want a little perspective on the current situation, check out your comments (which I appreciated) on the other thread. Search "grilf" and it'll pop up.

Having read everyone's posts, I still say it's time for a break. I don't believe in counseling. If it's susceptible to repair, you can fix it. The real key is to listen to that vox clamatis down deep that tells you when it can't be fixed.

From the brief dossier you've presented, she's given you nothing but reason to assume, and prepare, for the worst.

JP

Were you concerned enough to give her a call? I'm assuming either:
1. She has a cell phone
2. You know the phone number of the house where the party occurred.

I'm not saying what she did was right, but stewing for a couple of hours waiting for her to come home instead of actively finding out what's going on doesn't help the situation, IMHO...

Just another thought,
-Z-man.

That's the ticket. Although my corners are WAY darker, this works for us. Credit to us (well, mostly her, but whatever works).

Well, she must have killed him. Last we heard, he was going home to face the beast. No word since. Must've gotten gored.

RIP, Dueller. At least his suffering is over.

JP

Like my father told me, marry an ugly wife son. She'll be 50% less likely to leave you and even if she does, you'll be 50% less likely to care.

"Marry an ugly wife"? So you're supposed to wed someone that's already married? Your dad sounds like a hoot! :D

BTW, didja? And if you're married, did you share your father's wisdom with her? :D

JP

With or without makeup?