kit car questions

[notfarnow]

Here's something that perplexes me.

Why aren't there tube frame kits available for 914s? Basically, take the suspension & running gear from a rusty donor car, and swap it into a tube frame. Rusty but driveable 914s are around for ~$2000

I think that would make a fantanstic base for a mid-engined sports car or kit car. Imagine a speedster body, or 904, or anything else. Plus, there are so many engine swap options. 911, subaru, SBC...

I see complete dune buggy tube frames for ~$1000, would it really be that much more complex to build a tube frame for a 914?

I've seen plenty of custom built 914 tube frames online, but no plans, kits or complete chassis seem to be available.

Even a kit that allowed you to reinforce a cut down tub would be great. Something like this:



A complete tube frame would be even better.

[svandamme]

kit cars tend to be stuff that's to expensive to buy
904's , 550's, 917's

914's are pretty much very cheap and plenty available
so anybody who want's one , can get one for a lot less money then a kit would cost

just check the Caterham webpage for pricing and you'll know what i mean...

besides, it wouldn't be a 914, it would be replicrap that isn't a real Porsche, sure , light and fast, but it wouldn't even be allowed in many of the classes that 914's now race in...

[notfarnow]

I'm not talking about having a "kit car" of a 914, I'm talking about using 914 suspension & drivetrain as a basis for a car. Surely that would be a step up from a VW pan under a speedster kit.

Don't think replicrap, think low buck ariel atom

[svandamme]

not all kit cars are based on an existing chassis
cat-7's aren't

even if you use a 914 engine , drivetrain and suspension geometry
if you don't chop a real 914 chassis, it's not a 914 but a 914 based kit car

if you do chop a 914 chassis, it's not a kit car, but a 914 modification kit

i doubt there's a bit market for either, which would only make the cost even higher in order to make it profitable

and as long as it's not based on a real chassis, it's replicrap to me... no Porsche vin.

imho why make an atom look like a 914
get an atom if that's what you want
if you want a 914, get a 914...

but that's just me

[notfarnow]

Originally posted by svandamme

imho why make an atom look like a 914
get an atom if that's what you want
if you want a 914, get a 914...

but that's just me

I wouldn't make anything look like a 914, I'd ditch the body.

Maybe a fiberglass 356 body, or no body at all

[svandamme]

then why use a 914 chasis?
or anything else 914 based ????

there's enough 356 kit cars out allready,
and i'm sure there's tubeframe stuff to be found too

why would they base anything on a 914 chassis if there are so much more VW chassis to work with

there are hot kit's out there that only retain the VW chassis to have a vin to use for registration.... a 914 would cost so much more and if just hte vin is used, what's the point in doing it on a 914 ??

[boba]

[i]

Maybe a fiberglass 356 body, or no body at all [/B]

Done, next.

[notfarnow]

Originally posted by svandamme
then why use a 914 chasis?
or anything else 914 based ????

-mid engined
-lots of engine swap options
-inexpensive
-good suspension

Boba, I've seen pictures of that car before, but didn't realize it was 914 based. Neat stuff!

[svandamme]

but you're talking about a tube frame

you can midengine all you want if you want a tube frame
all you do is get the tranny and then anything you want

i'm sure there are kits out there that do just that, but not 914 based because that's not inexpensive at all compared to the alternatives

just look up the PGO speedster
tubeframed
mid engined
Peugeot GTi engine..

[notfarnow]

Now I'm going to have to buy a 914 and do it on my own, just because you're pissin' me off

[svandamme]

hey man , i'm just trying to explain what is "perplexing" you

it's economics and practicality, pure and simple

[RallyJon]

I think when choosing donor parts for a kit car, having lots of swap and upgrade options defeats the purpose. Lemme get this straight, I can use the suspension, brakes, engine and transmission from a 914. But then I have to upgrade the the suspension and brakes and swap the engine? How about if I just use the transmission? But it would probably be better to use a newer, stronger 'box, or else spends thousands upgrading it.

How about instead you start with a 914 shell and swap in double wishbones, brakes, a modern engine and a gearbox that shifts? Maybe from a Honda donor.

[Laneco]

Actually, there are more tube frame rear engined speedster kit cars than there are pan based ones (at this time).

If you build a 550 spyder, they are already tube frame for mid-engine. Here's an affordable way to build a really cool one:

Take a rusted out 914, use the suspension, steering, steering column, brakes, pedal assembly, shifter, shift linkage, instruments (refaced for an authentic look), engine, transmission, axles, parking brake and wheels.

Build the 550. When we built our 550, we used an early 911 as a donor and got the transaxle/shifter/linkage from a 914. It would have been less expensive to build from a 914 base.

The black one in this picture is ours. One of the silver 550 cars is a subaru engine.

angela

[notfarnow]

Originally posted by Laneco

If you build a 550 spyder, they are already tube frame for mid-engine. Here's an affordable way to build a really cool one:

Take a rusted out 914, use the suspension, steering, steering column, brakes, pedal assembly, shifter, shift linkage, instruments (refaced for an authentic look), engine, transmission, axles, parking brake and wheels.

Exactly what I was wondering about! Thanks Angela

So is there already a 550 tube frame designed to use these 914 components?

[unimog406]

check out
factoryfive.com
they do some pretty insane kits
www.superformance.com

I've been considering doing a kit myself for a long time...
the other route to go is to get one custom welded. Drawing up something to mate to suspension/engine would be an interesting challenge, and paying to have it welded up and powdercoated shouldn't be that expensive...
Seems that one could be able to make themselves an ariel atom type rig for about 10 grand, or less, depending on how much time you could put into it. Very time consuming, and the end result is probably pretty similar to a miata/914 but still....

[notfarnow]

Laneco got me looking at thunder ranch, and they have their tube frames for the 550 kits

Something like that would be cool, if you could transfer 914 components directly onto it.

As for making a custom tube frame, I saw a neat trick on a build diary for a Bonneville streamliner:
They make a complete frame out of 2" PVC pipe, using heat lamps & torches to make the bends. Then, once the whole thing is mocked up, they disassemble it and use the individual pieces as templates for the steel tubing.

Neat stuff, and it saves them building it out of steel only to find they can't fit in it with their helmet on

[svandamme]

Originally posted by notfarnow
Exactly what I was wondering about! Thanks Angela

So is there already a 550 tube frame designed to use these 914 components?

i don't understand this fascination for 914 parts?
do you have a full stock and no use for them?

i mean , it's tube frame, there's loads of parts that will fit
could even fit 944 steering racks and tranny if you want
or 968 or boxster


you asked for a tube frame 914 kitcar,
but now it's "a tube frame to put 914 parts like an Atom but with a 356 look"

that's a whole different story all together

[notfarnow]

Originally posted by svandamme



you asked for a tube frame 914 kitcar,
but now it's "a tube frame to put 914 parts like an Atom but with a 356 look"

that's a whole different story all together

No, either you misunderstood me, or I wasn't clear with my first post.

My questions center around using 914 components as a base for a tube framed sports car. Bodywork, or lack thereof, is secondary.

Originally posted by svandamme
i don't understand this fascination for 914 parts?
do you have a full stock and no use for them?

Nope, but there are lots of 914 donor cars around.
My fascination actually goes back to a street legal Formula Vee I saw for sale a while ago. I was interested enough to start making calls and hunting around, but then got turned off by the low-tech aspects of them. Swing axles, drum brakes etc. A 914 seems like a better starting point for what I'm considering

[svandamme]

i just think you're going at it the wrong way
because you're thinking custom not kit, but you keep asking for kit

first you decide what you want to do with it
that determines layout, dimensions
then you look and figure out what you can put into that frame so it fits and the whole thing makes sense

the pic you posted, that's not what i call a tube frame chassis
that's closer to a beetle then to an atom

it would either require extensive custom work to add something on top of it ,or it would be no better then a beetle chassis

could just as well take a beetle chassis and start welding
and mod it for mid engine layout
many kit cars do just that, with VW gti engines and what not

but to be atom like, it's just completely the wrong setup
the atom is designed to be fully self supporting from the ground up
not as a skateboard with reinforcement

gotta think rigid from the start, not flex and then strenghten if you want Atom

[Laneco]

Actually, the frame shown above is not the one I have in mind. We actually have a thunder ranch, but the frame is NOTHING like that one.

This frame is from Vintage Spyders and I think this is more what you need to start with. This is very similar to the frame we have. The front of ours is significantly different as we have double A-arm w/coil over with rack and pinion. This frame in the pic is VW front end. Hope it gives you some great ideas.
angela