520 Floating Bridge

[island911]

Originally posted by Superman
That's one of the interesting issues. Since Tim Eyman has folks convinced that taxes are always bad, when we need to build something big and expensive, the alternative is to have a private company build it for us, and then collect tolls. And some folks here might be thinking that's cheaper than building it ourselves. Hmmmm.......

Tim Eyman did no such convincing. People know that giving investment money to our State politicians is like giving a loan to a crack head --right you'll get that money back. Tim Eyman thuroughly exploited the fact that people were/are PISSED!

When people are happy, a guy like Tim Eyman can not thrive. It's that simple.

More locally, I know for a fact that the people on the island here feel good about bang for the tax buck. ...our roads are well maintaned, our schools kick ass . .. and yet the tax density is much lower than our neighboring Seattle cluster.

[HardDrive]

I think this idea sucks, and it will hurt commerce in area. We live in Seattle, close to the Montlake exit on 520, so we frequntly jump across to Bellevue/Redmond to shop and eat. I would certainly consider taking my business elsewhere along the I-5 corridor if it was going to cost me $12 to get to the east side.

On top of that, late at night on the 520 bridge deck is one of my favorite places to....errrrrrrr.......drive it like I stole it......

[island911]

Originally posted by Superman
.. . Engineers insist this bridge will NOT be the place to be in an earthquake. Earthquakes happen here. ...

Oh really?

What if it's a small earthquake? . . what if a rogue 3" wave hits it? ...will it crumble to the bottom of lake Wa?

Seriously, it's scare-crap like that, Super, that is so transparent.

No doubt there exists an earthquake lare enough to take out 520 . . BUT, that thing is designed to move. . . as it does daily and seasonally with lake level changes. As I understand, the opening section could jam (closed) if dynamic forces are just right. [chris Farley] WELL, LA dee FREAKING DAH! [/chris Farley]

[Superman]

All smoke and mirrors, Island? Engineers are crazy? Perhaps. Just post the link to the study done by conservative engineers showing the massive earthquakes it would survive. So far, all the studies I have seen conclude differently but if you know this to be false, then I'd guess you have some data to share with the rest of us. Or perhaps you're just assuming that since the gubmit said something, it must be false. Tim Eyman has done a good job on you, that much seems clear. I will be particularly interested in the earthquake modeling that shows how much the piers on the West end, the ones that are a eighty feet high or thereabouts, sway without failing. You know, the ones that connect the mud on the bottom of the lake to the road surface. That part of the bridge is not floating. And......floating structures float forever, right? Stuff does not have a service life or an engineered life. Stuff lasts forever?

All smoke and mirrors. Gosh, it sure is easy to bilk taxpayers out of $14,000,000,000. Just pretend that a bridge is needing repair. And get all of WSDOT, and several other agencies expressing grave concern after conducting their independent engineering studies. Oh, wait a minute. Island knows that stuff is all made up.

Okay. I'm ready for the data, Island.

[teenerted1]

Originally posted by HardDrive
I think this idea sucks, and it will hurt commerce in area. We live in Seattle, close to the Montlake exit on 520, so we frequntly jump across to Bellevue/Redmond to shop and eat. I would certainly consider taking my business elsewhere along the I-5 corridor if it was going to cost me $12 to get to the east side.

On top of that, late at night on the 520 bridge deck is one of my favorite places to....errrrrrrr.......drive it like I stole it......

you obviously weren't here when there was a toll on 520. booth was on the east side and on the west bound lanes if i remember. not sure exactly since i wasn't even a teenager by the time they were gone.

so you are looking at only $6 to get home? not sure if they plan on a toll both ways.

finally will make the eastside the bedroom community it always wanted to be

[red-beard]

Originally posted by Superman
Engineers are crazy?

I'm not crazy. Postal, but not crazy.

[island911]

Originally posted by Superman
.. . Engineers insist this bridge will NOT be the place to be in an earthquake. Earthquakes happen here. ...

Ya see, Supe, your "Engineer" there did NOT put forth an engineering argument there. An engineer would QUANTIFY the risk. ...and you give me crap for not providing data. -sheesh.

All I'm saying is that your engineer is being intensionally vague, for obvious polittical purposes. It doesn't take an engineer to see that. ...I'm not trying to bust your ball over this. Just trying to tell you what is obvious to the rest of us.

[MichiganMat]

The Bay Bridge here in NorCal is being overhauled (nay, circumvented) for Earthquake protection as well.

[Superman]

I appreciate that, Island. But I'm either a bit dumber, or a bit more open minded, than you are. For example, I wonder if guys like you think all this "seizmic upgrade" stuff we've been doing to buildings and bridges over the last fifteen years has all been a clever but transparent ruse.

[island911]

DO you remember the huge mudslide into the Magnolia bridge? THe main structure was fine . . .but the "seizmic upgrade" superstructure was spagettiied. --kinda points to a clever but transparent ruse, doncha think.

What about the millions extra spent on putting rail into the bus tunnel (for future light rail use) . . do they have all of that RIPPED OUT yet? YOu know, for our multi Billion Dollar lightrail solution that solves a problem that we don't even have.

[red-beard]

Originally posted by Superman
I wonder if guys like you think all this "seizmic upgrade" stuff we've been doing to buildings and bridges over the last fifteen years has all been a clever but transparent ruse.

Crap, you're on to us!

Next thing they'll figure out that Ethanol is also a ruse to make money for NPR supporter ADM.

wait...

[island911]

For the record, I'm alll for more roads, fixing roads, adding cool new bridges...

It's just that I'm getting tired of the political spin of "it will fall in the next earthquake. . . so lets raise taxes, or else." The political spin here, is out of control.

[island911]

Supe, why don't the politician just say it . .. the current bridge is lacking in girth. It simply needs more lanes and certainly needs a ped/bike lane. (UW is right there. ) All of this "may fail IF..." is such tired BS.

Originally posted by Superman
and that our ongoing failure to address the problem is going to strangle our local economics. Traffic congestion slows commerce and makes it more expensive.

Perhaps that's the goal and they're just not telling you?

[legion]

Originally posted by Superman
and that our ongoing failure to address the problem is going to strangle our local economics. Traffic congestion slows commerce and makes it more expensive.

And raising taxes, excessive regulation, and artificially high wages don't?

[the]

Originally posted by Superman
I appreciate that, Island. But I'm either a bit dumber, or a bit more open minded, than you are.

Now there's a tough one.

[LakeCleElum]

I talked to a WA DOT administrator about this recently. The problem is:

If they put a toll on the 520; most drivers just use the I-90 bridge to avoid the toll. Major congestion on the I-90 and the 520 is underutilized.....Can't put a toll on the I-90 as it's an interstate Highway......What to do, same as we always do, DO NOTHING!!!

[Bleyseng]

Originally posted by LakeCleElum
I talked to a WA DOT administrator about this recently. The problem is:

If they put a toll on the 520; most drivers just use the I-90 bridge to avoid the toll. Major congestion on the I-90 and the 520 is underutilized.....Can't put a toll on the I-90 as it's an interstate Highway......What to do, same as we always do, DO NOTHING!!!

No one wants a new bridge or major freeway by their house so that why no new ones have been built since the 70's in the Seattle Area. We also lost the Fed Gov money we had in our hand but couldn't figure out how to spend on rapid transit ( money went to Atlanta finally).

The Island has low tax rates but high property valuations....We really need to delete those island express lanes

[djmcmath]

Originally posted by LakeCleElum
If they put a toll on the 520; most drivers just use the I-90 bridge to avoid the toll. Major congestion on the I-90 and the 520 is underutilized.....Can't put a toll on the I-90 as it's an interstate Highway......What to do, same as we always do, DO NOTHING!!!

Not true: Given this choice, there will _always_ be people willing to pay a couple of bucks to avoid the traffic. I remember facing this exact decision on the NJT a few years back, and I know it's a routine decision for my Dad re: the Autostrada. Do you take the toll road, for a few dollars, and face low traffic and reasonably good roads, or do you rot in traffic and save a few bucks?

If that's really what the WA DOT administrators are saying, they're completely out of touch with human behavior.

[island911]

Originally posted by Bleyseng


The Island has low tax rates but high property valuations....We really need to delete those island express lanes

yeah? do you really want more traffic on the non-express laneS? Do you want to see those express lanes empty, except for the occasional bus?